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You are misrepresenting me. I do not label someone my enemy based solely on what others tell me.
And you have ignored what I said
Yes you are right. I did ignore you.(Forigive me) Why should I pay any attention to what you have said, while you have ignored some very simple questions?
Lets start fresh. . .
1. Why is another country labeled "foreign" to america(by your own words) but america, isn't foreign to other countries that are defending their so-called sovereignty?
Yes you are right. I did ignore you.(Forigive me) Why should I pay any attention to what you have said, while you have ignored some very simple questions?
Lets start fresh. . .
1. Why is another country labeled "foreign" to america(by your own words) but america, isn't foreign to other countries that are defending their so-called sovereignty?
One question, one answer.
You're not just ignoring me. You are ignoring the things I pointed out to you that the Bible says about the subject.
I've a better idea. You answer this question. If the only way you could stop someone from murdering your wife was to kill him, would you kill him, or would you let him murder her?
You are misrepresenting me. I do not label someone my enemy based solely on what others tell me.
And you have ignored what I said in post #10 which I repeat below.
No, the command is 'you will not murder.' Killing the enemy in warfare is not murder. It is killing in defense of your Country and your loved ones. God established the armies of Israel. The principle of killing the enemy to protect your nation and your freedom is as valid now as it was in the Old Testament, and nothing that Jesus said during His earthly ministry changes that.
Jesus Christ is God. And as God one of His titles is 'Lord of hosts' or 'Lord of Armies'. In the Old Testament this referred to the armies of Israel. See Joshua 5:13-15, 6:2 for example. The pre-incarnate Jesus Christ was the commander in chief of the Jewish armies.
Joshua 5:13 Now it came about when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, a man was standing opposite him with his sword drawn in his hand, and Joshua went to him and said to him, "Are you for us or for our adversaries?" 14] He said, "No; rather I indeed come now as captain of the host of the LORD." And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and bowed down, and said to him, "What has my lord to say to his servant?" 15] The captain of the LORD'S host said to Joshua, "Remove your sandals from your feet, for the place where you are standing is holy." And Joshua did so. 6:1] Now Jericho was tightly shut because of the sons of Israel; no one went out and no one came in. 2] The LORD said to Joshua, "See, I have given Jericho into your hand, with its king and the valiant warriors.
It also refers to the angelic armies of heaven. Warfare on earth is an extension of the angelic conflict taking place in the heavens.
This is the devil's world. God has to provide for the protection of mankind. He did this by dividing the world into national entities. As I already said, having different nations makes it harder for Satan to gain control over this world of which he is the ruler.
God ordained laws or principles of divine establishment as protection for a nation. While the police force provides interior protection from the criminal element, God has ordained the military to be the means of providing exterior protection of a nation from hostile nations, thus defending and preserving national sovereignty and freedom.
God is on the side of a just nation which is defending it's freedom in war. And the believer in Jesus Christ should be willing to fight and die to defend his Country and the freedom of those who live in it.
We can see that sometimes war is necessary and when a burglar breaks into our homes and threatens our family’s lives, we have every right to defend ourselves. Going to war to defend a nation is no different. There are presently many thousands of Christians who are engaged in war, and countless millions have been throughout this nation’s history. They are not breaking any laws in the Bible. In fact, they are taking up their sword and defending their sovereign nation to preserve our freedoms and one of those precious freedoms that many nations do not have even today is that of religious freedom. Untold millions have died to preserve this freedom and these heroes and heroines are the reason today that we have freedom of worship and freedom not to worship – but only because God’s servants are able to brandish the sword to protect freedom of religion and to preserve life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Romans 13 is not absolute, it does not say a Christian must obey every la or support every action or under the Caesars they would have had to turn each other in, according to the Roman Law. Did they? Or did they obey God above the Governments?
The problem is a simple one. God's Kingdom is our "Country" as every other Kingdom and Nation belongs to Satan. When you support any of them you support Satan.
That is why every Nation claiming to be Christian has had its military kill other Christians, kill innocent men women and children and glorify the ones doing it.
Jesus said what we do to the least of his Brothers we have done to him. The least one, not the greatest one
EVERY Nation has killed Jesus again and again and again and .... True Christians do not do that.
If one reads the Bible especially the OT, one will find that wars and battles are not so rare. In fact, in many instances God has direct intervention in them in a sense that He will always aid the army of the righteous to defeat the opposing force whatever that may be. It is always regarded as triumph of good over evil.
So back to your query, military in a religious context is not such a contradictory idea as one would believe so long as the military concerned is on God's side, and Christian army doing battles in God's name is certainly not a new or modern phenomenon. Yes, like all wars there will be blood shed but it doesn't mean that Christian army are blood thirsty.
I seem to be surrounded by people that call themselves "Christians", yet they support violence and anything to do with armed forces.
We are told to love our enemies, not destroy them. The Gospel is what changes hearts, NOT a man made army.
After coming to the Lord, I have come to the realization that man made borders and political ideologies are tools of the enemy.
I respect people who think that they are joining some military force because they think that they are protecting something, but they have been lied to. The military is only protecting the interests of greed and power, and those who propagate such things.
So, why do people who call themselves followers of Christ, join worldly military forces?
Yes, your right. Early Christianity was such a pacifist movement at the time that I believe the Roman army viewed it as a national security problem because it was spreading across their ranks with many roman soldiers refusing to fight. That came at a time when they were under increased pressure on their borders by their enemies. Even Jesus said that His Kingdom was not of this world and that if it was His followers would fight.
You are misrepresenting me. I do not label someone my enemy based solely on what others tell me.
And you have ignored what I said in post #10 which I repeat below.
No, the command is 'you will not murder.' Killing the enemy in warfare is not murder. It is killing in defense of your Country and your loved ones. God established the armies of Israel. The principle of killing the enemy to protect your nation and your freedom is as valid now as it was in the Old Testament, and nothing that Jesus said during His earthly ministry changes that.
Jesus Christ is God. And as God one of His titles is 'Lord of hosts' or 'Lord of Armies'. In the Old Testament this referred to the armies of Israel. See Joshua 5:13-15, 6:2 for example. The pre-incarnate Jesus Christ was the commander in chief of the Jewish armies.
Joshua 5:13 Now it came about when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, a man was standing opposite him with his sword drawn in his hand, and Joshua went to him and said to him, "Are you for us or for our adversaries?" 14] He said, "No; rather I indeed come now as captain of the host of the LORD." And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and bowed down, and said to him, "What has my lord to say to his servant?" 15] The captain of the LORD'S host said to Joshua, "Remove your sandals from your feet, for the place where you are standing is holy." And Joshua did so. 6:1] Now Jericho was tightly shut because of the sons of Israel; no one went out and no one came in. 2] The LORD said to Joshua, "See, I have given Jericho into your hand, with its king and the valiant warriors.
It also refers to the angelic armies of heaven. Warfare on earth is an extension of the angelic conflict taking place in the heavens.
This is the devil's world. God has to provide for the protection of mankind. He did this by dividing the world into national entities. As I already said, having different nations makes it harder for Satan to gain control over this world of which he is the ruler.
God ordained laws or principles of divine establishment as protection for a nation. While the police force provides interior protection from the criminal element, God has ordained the military to be the means of providing exterior protection of a nation from hostile nations, thus defending and preserving national sovereignty and freedom.
God is on the side of a just nation which is defending it's freedom in war. And the believer in Jesus Christ should be willing to fight and die to defend his Country and the freedom of those who live in it.
We can see that sometimes war is necessary and when a burglar breaks into our homes and threatens our family’s lives, we have every right to defend ourselves. Going to war to defend a nation is no different. There are presently many thousands of Christians who are engaged in war, and countless millions have been throughout this nation’s history. They are not breaking any laws in the Bible. In fact, they are taking up their sword and defending their sovereign nation to preserve our freedoms and one of those precious freedoms that many nations do not have even today is that of religious freedom. Untold millions have died to preserve this freedom and these heroes and heroines are the reason today that we have freedom of worship and freedom not to worship – but only because God’s servants are able to brandish the sword to protect freedom of religion and to preserve life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Romans 13 is not absolute, it does not say a Christian must obey every la or support every action or under the Caesars they would have had to turn each other in, according to the Roman Law. Did they? Or did they obey God above the Governments?
The problem is a simple one. God's Kingdom is our "Country" as every other Kingdom and Nation belongs to Satan. When you support any of them you support Satan.
That is why every Nation claiming to be Christian has had its military kill other Christians, kill innocent men women and children and glorify the ones doing it.
Jesus said what we do to the least of his Brothers we have done to him. The least one, not the greatest one
EVERY Nation has killed Jesus again and again and again and .... True Christians do not do that.
If you read the entire article then you know that it also said the following:
Conscientious Objectors
There is nothing wrong with a Christian, in all good conscious, to reject going into the military to kill someone else. Many Christian’s have refused to fight in the past and do not sin by resisting orders to take up arms and kill another, however killing someone is not the same thing as murdering someone.
But I disagree with the concept of conscientious objectors. I believe that every Christian (male) should want to serve his Country in the military.
And no, supporting your country is not supporting Satan. It is God who established the divine institution of nationalism. Even in the Millennium, when Satan is imprisoned, there will be nations.
If you read the entire article then you know that it also said the following:
Conscientious Objectors
There is nothing wrong with a Christian, in all good conscious, to reject going into the military to kill someone else. Many Christian’s have refused to fight in the past and do not sin by resisting orders to take up arms and kill another, however killing someone is not the same thing as murdering someone.
But I disagree with the concept of conscientious objectors. I believe that every Christian (male) should want to serve his Country in the military.
And no, supporting your country is not supporting Satan. It is God who established the divine institution of nationalism. Even in the Millennium, when Satan is imprisoned, there will be nations.
Christians only have one Country God's Kingdom through Christ. That is part of what accepting Jesus as your Lord means. He IS King.
he told us we an only serve one Master, so it is Christ or a Nation but nor both. Serving a Nation leads to killing or sharing in the killing of Christ's brothers and other innocents, thus killing Christ.
Conscientious objection is mentioned in the article, to appeal to "both" sides.
You support a Nation, you are supporting that Nations ruler, Satan. Christ does not rule any human nation, he will destroy them.
Our obedience is limited, remember Peter's words. "we must obey God as ruler rather than men". Two choices; God through Christ's Kingdom or Satan through Man's. Look at the laws every Country has passed in direct contradiction to Gods's clear wishes. That is following Satan's wishes.
Unfortunately, things are not often black or white. Sometimes we have to choose the lesser of two evils.
If we follow Christ, it would be unjustified to kill a man to save your own life. However, it may be justified to kill in order to save your family or your countrymen. You're choosing between the sin of killing and the sin of doing nothing while someone else is being killed or persecuted.
Should Pres Obama have given the order to kill Osama Bin Laden, or should he have "turned the other cheek"? As an individual, he should forgive Bin Laden and turn the other cheek. As President, however, he is sworn to protect the lives of Americans.
Unfortunately, things are not often black or white. Sometimes we have to choose the lesser of two evils.
If we follow Christ, it would be unjustified to kill a man to save your own life. However, it may be justified to kill in order to save your family or your countrymen. You're choosing between the sin of killing and the sin of doing nothing while someone else is being killed or persecuted.
Should Pres Obama have given the order to kill Osama Bin Laden, or should he have "turned the other cheek"? As an individual, he should forgive Bin Laden and turn the other cheek. As President, however, he is sworn to protect the lives of Americans.
There is a vast difference between self defense and National military activities.
Everyone tries to use personal self defense to justify military action and the two are vastly different. After all, did Christians fight against Rome when it invaded Judea or did they ........... flee the Country as Jesus directed. Christian killing Christian in war dishonors God and His Son.
Just look back to the US civil war. Christians from the same Church killed each other. Christians from Maine went South to Kill. Maine was never threatened at all, so no personal self defense was involved.
I suspect God is powerful enough to see His will regarding the Nations done without His people dishonoring Him.
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