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Yay. ANOTHER thread on universalism. I wonder why it's so important to them that all men accept the message, posting non-stop on message boards. According to universalists we're all saved anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heart_Song
It is not important to me that you or ALL accept the message of Universalism. BUT it is important to get the message to those whom God has prepared to receive it. You are free to ignore the message and it won't bother me one bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow.
Vizio...
Why would those who believe in the salvation of all, NOT share this message?
Let's say, if you personally, did not believe that God was frying people for all eternity... and you knew that a lot of "pastors" and "preachers" DID preach this abomination that blasphemes the nature of God (God as eternal torturer).. you would stay silent on the subject?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heart_Song
Sparrow - my point exactly. We shall not be silent. We shall not hide our talents under a bush or a barrel or whatever it is in that scripture, lol. We are not ashamed to declare the good news of God's love to all the world.
Amen sisters!! The real question is why do the eternal torture believers love such a heinous God and pretend that such a God deserves worship and love???? The vindictiveness of humans seems to know no bounds.
The real question is why do the eternal torture believers love such a heinous God and pretend that such a God deserves worship and love????
Because they haven't properly discerned the spirit of fear behind those doctrines, whilst paradoxically they have been drawn by His love. They look at the mere words and say things like "we don't understand the Justice of God", or worse still "that's what written", without pause for thought or consideration of the process of how doctrine develops, and neither seeing the structural or political hierarchy in the church, presuming that everyone is under the leader's covering. Those who are fear full, comply with doctrines of fear. Those who are free from a spirit of fear, are free. I guess there's a difference between fear, and a spirit of fear - one is an emotion, the other is backed up by a spiritual stronghold.
The spirit of fear locks people into a self fulfilling prophecy or cycle. I can't question anything with a 'what if?', because if I'm wrong there'll surely be a penalty to pay. Even God says "come let us reason together", so even a savvy unbeliever might choose that option when their time comes round, come on!! The other aspect is pig headed pride, where someone questions their belief, and they have to defend it.
Last edited by Age-enduring; 10-02-2014 at 05:47 AM..
Reason: Last paragraph explorations
There are some odd things said in the scriptures about all being saved, that are hard to understand. It might help to remember that Christ has died for all, and that on the last day all will be raised to life on the last day. But then will come the judgment. Then the unbelievers will be condemned and be sent to hell. Thus comes the axiom, born twice, die once. Born once, die twice. This axiom states what the Bible in part states. That is, that those who die in unbelief and are unrepentant will die a second time on judgement day.
Amen sisters!! The real question is why do the eternal torture believers love such a heinous God and pretend that such a God deserves worship and love???? The vindictiveness of humans seems to know no bounds.
Do you believe in the account of Adam and Eve and original sin?
Amen sisters!! The real question is why do the eternal torture believers love such a heinous God and pretend that such a God deserves worship and love???? The vindictiveness of humans seems to know no bounds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
Do you believe in the account of Adam and Eve and original sin?
Not the way it has been explained. I believe it was our FIRST LESSON . . . the discrimination between right and wrong . . . the knowledge of Good and Evil. It is the first lesson we ALL must learn . . . "As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be." The silly idea of original sin and an angry God is the result of ancient ignorance.
Not the way it has been explained. I believe it was our FIRST LESSON . . . the discrimination between right and wrong . . . the knowledge of Good and Evil. It is the first lesson we ALL must learn . . . "As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be." The silly idea of original sin and an angry God is the result of ancient ignorance.
So... no, you do not believe in the account as it is presented as an actual event... an event twice referred to in the New Testament.
Let me answer your question above in post #21.
I believe in taking the Bible as it is - some sections are historical, some poetry, some parts are high in symbolism - it depends on the context.
Genesis is a historical book. There is no reason in the text to interpret that book any other way. You choose to not believe in Genesis because it doesn't make sense to you - or whatever. That's not the Bible's problem.
Since I take the Bible as it is - there are texts in the Bible that spell out punishment for those who are not in Christ... or those whose names are not written in the book of life. Certainly you can not deny that. Since the Bible makes reference to eternal punishment - and I take those sections to be literal - can you understand why I believe God allows eternal punishment? ...not saying you have to agree, but can you understand why?
There are some odd things said in the scriptures about all being saved, that
are hard to understand. It might help to remember that Christ has died for all,
and that on the last day all will be raised to life on the last day. But then
will come the judgment. Then the unbelievers will be condemned and be sent to
hell. Thus comes the axiom, born twice, die once. Born once, die twice. This
axiom states what the Bible in part states. That is, that those who die in
unbelief and are unrepentant will die a second time on judgement day
Hi augiedoggie, the scriptures speak of a time when all things are to be reunited in Christ. Yes, some will be condemned and some will suffer punishment and the second death. But the second death is not the end, in that Jesus will abolish death so that God may be all in all. (1 Cor. 15) The scriptures speak of the end of the earth returning to the Lord so those who are unrepentant will not remain unrepentant.
PS 22:27 "All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD, and all the families of the nations will bow down before him..."
Not the way it has been explained. I believe it was our FIRST LESSON . . . the discrimination between right and wrong . . . the knowledge of Good and Evil. It is the first lesson we ALL must learn . . . "As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be." The silly idea of original sin and an angry God is the result of ancient ignorance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
So... no, you do not believe in the account as it is presented as an actual event... an event twice referred to in the New Testament.
Check your reading comprehension. I believe it is an unavoidable event (FIRST LESSON) in every single human life. Of course it happened in the beginning! What YOU think it meant is what is silly. Our almighty God getting angry at newly created innocent Spirits with no knowledge of right or wrong . . . good or evil!!! Over a fruit??? Condemning our entire species because of it???? Preposterous! It was just the first of many lessons our species would have to learn on its way to understanding God and our purpose. They are chronicled in the Bible.
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
The real question is why do the eternal torture believers love such a heinous God and pretend that such a God deserves worship and love???? The vindictiveness of humans seems to know no bounds.
Let me answer your question above in post #21.
I believe in taking the Bible as it is - some sections are historical, some poetry, some parts are high in symbolism - it depends on the context.
Genesis is a historical book. There is no reason in the text to interpret that book any other way. You choose to not believe in Genesis because it doesn't make sense to you - or whatever. That's not the Bible's problem.
Since I take the Bible as it is - there are texts in the Bible that spell out punishment for those who are not in Christ... or those whose names are not written in the book of life. Certainly you can not deny that. Since the Bible makes reference to eternal punishment - and I take those sections to be literal - can you understand why I believe God allows eternal punishment? ...not saying you have to agree, but can you understand why?
Absolutely not! How can ANYONE accept an unending consequence for a finite life??? It can serve no purpose whatsoever. If punishment does not lead to correction . . . it is just evil vindictiveness. How could anyone love such an evil entity???
Check your reading comprehension. I believe it is an unavoidable event (FIRST LESSON) in every single human life. Of course it happened in the beginning! What YOU think it meant is what is silly. Our almighty God getting angry at newly created innocent Spirits with no knowledge of right or wrong . . . good or evil!!! Over a fruit??? Condemning our entire species because of it???? Preposterous! It was just the first of many lessons our species would have to learn on its way to understanding God and our purpose. They are chronicled in the Bible.
Absolutely not! How can ANYONE accept an unending consequence for a finite life??? It can serve no purpose whatsoever. If punishment does not lead to correction . . . it is just evil vindictiveness. How could anyone love such an evil entity???
I just asked you to understand where I was coming from. You can't even do that.
Let God be God and quit telling Him how to behave.
This is too powerful not to share for anyone who is interested in learning about the scriptural belief of the eventual restoration of all to God. The second death is not the end as some believe. It leads to the death of the old man, the sinful man and for those who are cast into the second death, they will die-die to self and all that is sinful. There are several ways to understand this but the result is death to the old sinful man. I use to think of it in terms of the believer being baptized to identify with the death of Christ, dying to self and the old man. The second death=lake of fire. The fact that it is called a lake was always eye opening to me because the word lake means a pond, a fair haven in the Greek. So this second death is good for those who are cast into it. They will die to the old man, the old self.
Notes
"The first man's death is different from the Second Man's death. The first Adam's death has no way out; it is simply death and, of course, sin reigns in this death. All of us are born mortal and we experience death, mortality. However, the last Adam's death is entirely different. The second death is a death to death and sin, resulting in life for all. The second death kills mortality and ushers in immortality. It kills the old man and births the new man, the new creation in Christ where God is all in all. It kills sin and ushers in righteousness. It takes the unclean and produces the clean. The Second Man's death takes away sin altogether, meaning it takes away the sin nature entirely, not merely sins. "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world 1:29), who bore the sins of many (Hebrews 9:28). Therefore, the Second Man's death is not like the first man's death; it is the Second Death. It is the death of death. This death is essential, for out of it God raises up mankind into life, the life of His Son
1 Cor. 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive."
made alive=zoopoleo=make alive, vivify, used primarily in the NT of raising the dead to life, generally used in reference to salvation. (Hebrew/Greek Key Word
God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 10-03-2014 at 11:39 PM..
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