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Rape is sexual immorality. Judges 9 proves the men weren't gay, and you clearly have not read Ezekiel where it flat out tells you the sin of Sodom is inhospitality.
Not to mention, considering Lot offered up his daughters to be raped instead of the angels, anyone who takes the Sodom story as a valid moral guide for the 21st Century probably needs to be locked up for the safety of society.
Homosexuality is sexual immorality. Ezekiel only gives one part of the puzzle. I look at the whole Bible.
SO now you are suggesting that Christians who oppose homosexuality be imprisoned?
? Please tell me what that has to do with me, my race or my faith, or with homosexuality. It is not my people doing or condoning it, nor Christianity. So rather ask those educated blacks you 'communicate' with why this behaviour is so pervasive in their culture.
Otherwise we can discuss it outside Christianity and I will fully agree with you as to the behaviour of SA blacks.
I only brought those things up because you were saying how the PC cancer was spreading to your Christian area and how horrible of an influence that was. If anything I think your area would benefit from some of that PC cancer. This is what you said : The difference is you deal with American blacks. Your Watts and St Louis are not something to aspire to. SA is a very Christian country. white and black. just different churches. Neither white nor black wants this liberal PC culture coming from the west. What is so difficult to understand about that? Why must the world adopt the liberal PC American model. That western model has been resisted since the Boer war.
I don't think homosexuality is a sin, but if someone wants to believe that then whatever. I think it is silly, but you have a right to believe what you want to believe. It is when people start talking nonchalantly about gays or any other group of people getting beat up or even murdered then that is a bit disturbing. Luckily, most people don't think this way.
You also seem to think I'm gay, but I am not. I do have gay friends though, and when I see others say that they should be beat up or how people should stay away from them then I have a hard time not saying something. In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends. Martin Luther King, Jr.
"In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire."
Jude 1:7
No, you still don't know how to read your bible.
Here are the exact words in half dozen or more translations--where is homosexuality mentioned? Or man on man?
King James Version
1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
American Standard Version
1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them, having in like manner with these given themselves over to fornication and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire.
Bible in Basic English
1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the towns near them, having like these, given themselves up to unclean desires and gone after strange flesh, have been made an example, undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
Darby's English Translation
1:7 as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities around them, committing greedily fornication, in like manner with them, and going after other flesh, lie there as an example, undergoing the judgment of eternal fire.
Douay Rheims
1:7 As Sodom and Gomorrha, and the neighbouring cities, in like manner, having given themselves to fornication, and going after other flesh, were made an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire.
Noah Webster Bible
1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to impurity, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
World English Bible
1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, having, in the same way as these, given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire.
Young's Literal Translation
1:7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, having given themselves to whoredom, and gone after other flesh, have been set before -- an example, of fire age-during, justice suffering.
------------------
The Genesis account isn't about homosexuality, it's about violence--and the men of Sodom were going after ANGELS, not men.
The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, ------" Lot went outside to meet them (the townsmen) and shut the door behind him and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing. Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof." "Get out of our way," they replied. And they said, "This fellow came here as an alien, and now he wants to play the judge! We'll treat you worse than them." They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door. But the men inside reached out and pulled Lot back into the house and shut the door. Then they struck the men who were at the door of the house, young and old, with blindness so that they could not find the door. The two men said to Lot, "Do you have anyone else here--sons-in-law, sons or daughters, or anyone else in the city who belongs to you? Get them out of here, because we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the LORD against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it."
Jude says that the men of these cities were guilty of sexual immorality and perversion (literally; lust after different flesh) in the same way as the Angels did. What were the warnings against: Unbelief; pride; lust; greed; sexual immorality; perversions; rebellion --- and desire to have sex with gods (angels) which was idolatry. Some of the angels that fell with Satan came to the earth and physically had sex with the women of the earth to produce a race of giants, if you take scripture literally. This comes directly from the information contained in Genesis chapter 6.
Study the Bible sans your prejudice and it doesn't read the same way.
Here are the exact words in half dozen or more translations--where is homosexuality mentioned? Or man on man?
King James Version
1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
American Standard Version
1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them, having in like manner with these given themselves over to fornication and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire.
Bible in Basic English
1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the towns near them, having like these, given themselves up to unclean desires and gone after strange flesh, have been made an example, undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
Darby's English Translation
1:7 as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities around them, committing greedily fornication, in like manner with them, and going after other flesh, lie there as an example, undergoing the judgment of eternal fire.
Douay Rheims
1:7 As Sodom and Gomorrha, and the neighbouring cities, in like manner, having given themselves to fornication, and going after other flesh, were made an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire.
Noah Webster Bible
1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to impurity, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
World English Bible
1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, having, in the same way as these, given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire.
Young's Literal Translation
1:7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, having given themselves to whoredom, and gone after other flesh, have been set before -- an example, of fire age-during, justice suffering.
------------------
The Genesis account isn't about homosexuality, it's about violence--and the men of Sodom were going after ANGELS, not men.
The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, ------" Lot went outside to meet them (the townsmen) and shut the door behind him and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing. Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof." "Get out of our way," they replied. And they said, "This fellow came here as an alien, and now he wants to play the judge! We'll treat you worse than them." They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door. But the men inside reached out and pulled Lot back into the house and shut the door. Then they struck the men who were at the door of the house, young and old, with blindness so that they could not find the door. The two men said to Lot, "Do you have anyone else here--sons-in-law, sons or daughters, or anyone else in the city who belongs to you? Get them out of here, because we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the LORD against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it."
Jude says that the men of these cities were guilty of sexual immorality and perversion (literally; lust after different flesh) in the same way as the Angels did. What were the warnings against: Unbelief; pride; lust; greed; sexual immorality; perversions; rebellion --- and desire to have sex with gods (angels) which was idolatry. Some of the angels that fell with Satan came to the earth and physically had sex with the women of the earth to produce a race of giants, if you take scripture literally. This comes directly from the information contained in Genesis chapter 6.
Study the Bible sans your prejudice and it doesn't read the same way.
Lol so I am to believe that the latest fad back in those days was angel sex? You have ZERO proof that strange flesh means angels. It can mean something that is unnatural which would be homosexuality. And let's not forget that the men of Sodom were already judged before the angels arrived at Lot's house.
And Something that other cities were doing as well? That makes absolutely no sense in the cultural context. Just another desperate attempt to distort the truth.
Lol so I am to believe that the latest fad back in those days was angel sex? You have ZERO proof that strange flesh means angels. It can mean something that is unnatural which would be homosexuality. And let's not forget that the men of Sodom were already judged before the angels arrived at Lot's house.
And Something that other cities were doing as well? That makes absolutely no sense in the cultural context. Just another desperate attempt to distort the truth.
Or just another desperate attempt on your part to biblically buttress your prejudice.
The sins of Sodom and Gomorrah are lack of hospitality and gang rape; not homosexuality.
The purpose of gang rape is humilliation. In ancient times and still today was/is relatively common. What the men in Sodom and Gomorrah wanted to do is humilliate the visitors and their way to do so was rape. Gang rape has nothing to do with sexual orintation; the gratification comes from seeing the other humulliated.
Also, Sodom and Gomorrah were already condemned before them wanting to gang rape the visitors. Lot offered his daughters to be raped. If the men in Sodom and Gomorrah were homosexuals it would have been silly to offer females for rape to men who don't feel attraction for them. Also, it is simply ridiculous to think all men were homosexuals.
Interesting is though that Lot offering his daughters for rape was not seen as sinful...
Being homosexual only means that you feel attracted to teh same same; not that you want to rape people. Here is when making something a taboo creates all sorts of negative myths around that that is being kept hidden.
Lol so I am to believe that the latest fad back in those days was angel sex? You have ZERO proof that strange flesh means angels. It can mean something that is unnatural which would be homosexuality. And let's not forget that the men of Sodom were already judged before the angels arrived at Lot's house.
And Something that other cities were doing as well? That makes absolutely no sense in the cultural context. Just another desperate attempt to distort the truth.
No, you are to believe that you don't know how to interpret a Bible written in Hebrew and Greek, inculcated in an ancient culture, and understood spiritually by pure hearts.
And yes Sodom was judged prior to arrival of angels---and Ezekiel tells us why.
And you have no proof that strange flesh means homosexual. So you have chosen to interpret a vague verse by using it as condemnation of a group of people. I have chosen to understand it in a fashion that will allow me to reach anyone.
The hypocrisy that Jesus consistently condemned is ever present in your posts. You follow Paul but reject Jesus. You highlight one verse of scripture (misinterpreted at that) while saying the dietary laws found in the self-same chapter are null and void.
You love who you wish to love and hate who you wish to hate and wave the bible as a wand of righteousness. Jesus commands we love everyone and showed what that meant by mingling with people who were considered as a type of homosexual---tax collectors, unclean sinners. Had He walked among them telling them that they were abominations before God how many would have heard His message that God loved them?
Put the Christianity you serve next to ISIS Muslims and the primary difference is the name. And those of us who know Jesus as Savior and have heard the Good News are sickened that His name is bandied about for such evil purpose. Christ died for people you condemn, and I'm beginning to think you'd better learn more about Universalism because that may be your only hope. And frankly, universalists won't be envious to have you join them. They at least know the message of Jesus was about love and acceptance.
The sins of Sodom and Gomorrah are lack of hospitality and gang rape; not homosexuality.
The purpose of gang rape is humilliation. In ancient times and still today was/is relatively common. What the men in Sodom and Gomorrah wanted to do is humilliate the visitors and their way to do so was rape. Gang rape has nothing to do with sexual orintation; the gratification comes from seeing the other humulliated.
Also, Sodom and Gomorrah were already condemned before them wanting to gang rape the visitors. Lot offered his daughters to be raped. If the men in Sodom and Gomorrah were homosexuals it would have been silly to offer females for rape to men who don't feel attraction for them. Also, it is simply ridiculous to think all men were homosexuals.
Interesting is though that Lot offering his daughters for rape was not seen as sinful...
Being homosexual only means that you feel attracted to teh same same; not that you want to rape people. Here is when making something a taboo creates all sorts of negative myths around that that is being kept hidden.
So you are saying that Sodom was being condemned before they committed the act? That is ridiculous. Or the other position is that the men of Sodom was just going around raping men all the time. Equally ridiculous. Both positions have very little evidence to support such conclusions.
It is unclear from this brief passage in Genesis why God demolished the city. The following theories have been advanced.
The people of Sodom:
Engaged in consensual homosexual acts -- a same-sex orgy in this case. This is the belief of most conservative Christians. This option seems unlikely because:
Genesis 19:5 said that all of the men (perhaps all of the people) of Sodom formed the mob at Lot's house and demanded to "know" the angels. The percentage of homosexuals in a typical group of male adults is generally around 5%, not 100%.
Also, Lot had lived in the city for some years and would have know if all of the men were homosexuals; he would hardly have offered to sacrifice his daughters to the mob if the men were entirely homosexual.
Finally, as noted above, if the men of Sodom were all homosexuals, there would be few if any children and widows in the city as are mentioned elsewhere in the Bible.
Were uncharitable and abusive to strangers, the poor, sick, and disadvantaged. In that society, a person had a very strong obligation to protect any guests in their home. Many liberal Christians believe that this is the meaning behind the story of the destruction of Sodom. This belief has considerable support in the many other references to Sodom in the Bible and Jewish literature.
Wanted to humiliate their visitors by engaging in "an act of sexual degradation and male rape...These are acts of violence that are committed by parties seeking to show their hatred for those they are degrading. It is not an act of love or of caring" [SIZE=2]1 [/SIZE]Some theologians suggest that the sin of Sodom was the threat of mass rape.
Wanted to engage in bestiality -- having sex with members of another species.The mob may have wanted to rape the angels; angels are not human beings; they are of a different species. This would be consistent with the frequently mistranslated verse in Jude about the men of Sodom going after "other flesh" or "strange flesh."
Wanted to adsorb 9 (sic) the power of the angels: In ancient times, sacred sex was very common. People would engage in sexual intercourse with temple prostitutes who represented a god or goddess. By doing so, the people believed that they would receive a blessing from the deity. If the people of Sodom realized that angels sent by God were present in their city, the men of Sodom may have concluded that raping the angels might give them supernatural powers.
---------------------------
Father Basil Isaacs, "Proofx booklet", Fountain of Life Western Orthodox Church Catholic Mission. Available for $2.50 from 1928 E. Highland, Suite F104-142, Phoenix, AZ 85016.
If you are a true Christian then according to the scriptures you should be reproving this abominable sin of homosexuality instead of promoting it.
Ephesians 5:
1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
Christians that claim that homosexuality it NOT a sin are not bringing light but darkness. How can you show love and at the same time promote darkness -- the abominable capital crime -- men having sex with other men?
Now, it may not be a "garden variety" sin because it is even a greater sin -- a most terrible sin -- an abominable sin!
Leviticus 20:
13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
It is so vile an act that God actually lists it as one of the sins that will cause the land to vomit the inhabitants out because the land has become defiled. Read Leviticus 18 very carefully.
Leviticus 18:
1 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, I am the Lord your God.
3 After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye walk in their ordinances.
4Ye shall do my judgments, and keep mine ordinances, to walk therein: I am the Lord your God.
5 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the Lord.
6 None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the Lord.
7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.
9 The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.
10 The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness.
11 The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
12 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman.
13 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she is thy mother's near kinswoman.
14 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt.
15 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
16 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness.
17 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.
18 Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life time.
19 Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness.
20 Moreover thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbour's wife, to defile thyself with her.
21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.
24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.
26 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:
27 (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled
28 That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.
29 For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.
30 Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the Lord your God.
How can anyone read these words and try to justify homosexuality and not rightfully condemn it not only as not being Christian but not a practice that any human being anywhere should engage in because of all the evil consequences it brings on the land and the inhabitants? How?
And this is God speaking through the Word, the Spokesman, who later became Jesus Christ saying that if men have sex with other men then because of this and other abominations listed above the land will become defiled and the land itself will vomit you out. Think about the land we live in today. Vomited out of our own land.
It is time people who are suppose to be lights start exposing this sin of homosexuality and quit hunkering down and accepting these works of darkness. You are to abhor this evil and homosexuality is an abominatble sin that will cause the inhabitants of the land to be vomited out.
tthttf
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