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Old 11-21-2014, 07:44 PM
 
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Maybe those books didn't fit into the political agenda being developed.
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Old 11-21-2014, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
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Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
Maybe those books didn't fit into the political agenda being developed.
What political agenda was that?
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Old 11-21-2014, 11:07 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
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Primarily the development of a party structure and party line operated by party functionaries.
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Old 04-01-2015, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Someplace Wonderful
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Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Do you believe hippies are unloving, unintelligent or don't have a purpose in life?
Personally, I think he was a little-bit country; and a whole lot of ROCK 'n ROLL.
Just now ran across this thread. Hope it is ok to post something here.

I recently watched a movie on Netflix, Apostle Peter and the Last Supper. I absolutely LOVE the way Jesus is depicted, with a big old smile and laughing and teaching God's love. I wish they could have worked in a scene with Jesus the Apocalyptic, with that highly evocative scene of the separating of the sheep and the goats, but I kinda understand why they did not. might have been too much of a downer.
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Old 04-01-2015, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Someplace Wonderful
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Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
It would require evidence of such major changes and ... there isn't any. Minor spelling changes, a few added verses, but no major changes exist.
I have heard it said by my guy that among the manuscripts that we have there are just a handful of textual discrepancies, none of which lead to any doctrinal conflict.

It would be nice to have an early source of the Gospel of the Hebrews. Jerome knew about it, which leads me to believe a manuscript exists in the archives of the Vatican. I have read one speculation that the Gospel of Matthew IS the Gospel of the Hebrews, but I'm not sure I buy that argument.
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Old 04-01-2015, 02:32 PM
 
Location: New England
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Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
It most certainly does to the one we are taught. He did not come with a message of believe or go to hell, he came to reveal the one greater than he..........the Father, and there is absolutely no comparison to whom he revealed and to the tribal warmongering terrorizing ways that the children of israel credited to God.

When they came to arrest Jesus, he was so unlike the God they believed in, they took Judas along with them to point him out, and when Jesus said "I AM HE", they all fell to the ground. When we come to see that God our Father is not the one terrorizing and causing mayhem against anyone we believe to be his enemies or our own enemies, it takes you back and causes you to fall to the ground. Many universalist went through this experience discovering that none are lost, knocked to the ground in the knowledge that none are lost, they will go through same experience again when see the Father is not the one terrorizing, causing mayhem and bringing disaster on folk.
Amen pcamps.
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Old 04-01-2015, 02:48 PM
 
Location: North America
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Why is it people on this board feel the need to add a load of biblical quotes to every post that they make?
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Old 04-01-2015, 03:34 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
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Originally Posted by chuckmann View Post
I have heard it said by my guy that among the manuscripts that we have there are just a handful of textual discrepancies, none of which lead to any doctrinal conflict.

It would be nice to have an early source of the Gospel of the Hebrews. Jerome knew about it, which leads me to believe a manuscript exists in the archives of the Vatican. I have read one speculation that the Gospel of Matthew IS the Gospel of the Hebrews, but I'm not sure I buy that argument.
300,000 to 400,000 or more textual variants is a bit more than a handful, but most are quite minor and of no significance at all, but even the significant variants don't affect any of the cardinal doctrines of the Christian faith. You may have seen me post these quotes before from a few textual scholars concerning the New Testament documents, but in case you haven't, here they are.

F. F. Bruce (1910-1990) was Rylands Professor of Biblical Criticism and Exegesis at the University of Manchester, England. He stated...
Fortunately, if the great number of MSS increases the number of scribal errors, it increases proportionately the means of correcting such errors, so that the margin of doubt left in the process of recovering the exact original wording is not so large as might be feared; it is in truth remarkably small. The variant readings about which any doubt remains among textual critics of the New Testament affect no material question of historic fact or of Christian faith and practice. [The New Testament Documents; Are They Reliable?, F.F. Bruce, pgs. 14-15.]

Bruce Metzger (1914-2007) was one of the most highly regarded scholars of Greek, New Testament, and New Testament Textual Criticism. He served on the board of the American Bible Society and United Bible Societies and was a professor at Princeton Theological Seminary. He commented...
But the amount of evidence for the text of the New Testament , whether derived from manuscripts, early versions, or patristic quotations is so much greater than that available for any ancient classical author that the necessity of resorting to emendation is reduced to the smallest dimensions. [The Text of the New Testament, Its Transmission, Corruption, and Restoration, Fourth Edition, Bruce M. Metzger and Bart D. Ehrman, pg. 230]

Daniel B. Wallace (PhD, Dallas Theological Seminary) is professor of New Testament Studies. He is a member of the Society of New Testament Studies, the Institute for Biblical Research, and has consulted on several Bible translations. He made these comments...
To sum up the evidence on the number of variants, there are a lot of variants because there are a lot of manuscripts. Even in the early centuries, the text of the NT is found in a sufficient number of MSS, versions, and writings of the church fathers to give us the essentials of the original text. [Revisiting the Corruption of the New Testament, Daniel B. Wallace, pg. 40]

Even Bart D. Ehrman who puts a skeptical spin on things when writing for the general public made the following statement in a college textbook as quoted by Dan Wallace in 'Revisiting the Corruption of the New Testament' on pg. 24...
"In spite of these remarkable differences, scholars are convinced that we can reconstruct the original words of the New Testament with reasonable (although probably not 100 percent) accuracy."
Ehrman wrote that in a college textbook called 'The New Testament: A Historical Introduction To the Early Christian Writings', 3rd ed. (New York: Oxford University Press, 2003), pg. 481.


In an article by Dan Wallace, he wrote...
'Though textual criticism cannot yet produce certainty about the exact wording of the original, this uncertainty affects only about two percent of the text. And in that two percent support always exists for what the original said--never is one left with mere conjecture. In other words it is not that only 90 percent of the original text exists in the extant Greek manuscripts--rather, 110 percent exists. Textual criticism is not involved in reinventing the original; it is involved in discarding the spurious, in burning the dross to get to the gold.' [The Majority Text and the Original Text: Are They Identical?
Study By: Daniel B. Wallace The Majority Text and the Original Text: Are They Identical? | Bible.org - Worlds Largest Bible Study Site
You might also want to read Dr. Wallace's article concerning the number of textual variants in the New Testament manuscripts. - The Number of Textual Variants: An Evangelical Miscalculation | Daniel B. Wallace

We can trust that our present texts are reliable. You do want a good translation however.

I have no idea what is kept in archives of the Vatican. It would be interesting to know however.

Last edited by Michael Way; 04-01-2015 at 04:22 PM..
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Old 04-01-2015, 04:20 PM
 
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I would say Jesus saw justice can be very different than the law. Help when you can help. "helping" sometimes mean turning off a broken dog.
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Old 04-01-2015, 06:42 PM
 
Location: In Thy presence is fulness of joy... Psa 16:11
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There have been some valid, insightful proofs here supporting the Bible. The truth is abundant if you want to see it.
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