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Old 12-02-2014, 11:07 PM
 
Location: Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
It is one thing for Jesus to teach large crowds and quite another to teach His disciples. Not all He taught His disciples was meant for the crowds of non disciples.

For instance, He taught the crowds in parables so they would not get the truth but He taught His disciples differently.
That a wrong understanding of what a parable is used for brother. I know the churches teach a parable is used that way, however that is NOT what the scriptures tell us the use of a parable is for.

A parable is a “dark saying”
Jesus is the “light”
A parable by itself stays hidden in the “darkness”, but when the “light” comes, the parable is understood.
Therefore, when Jesus (who is the light) spoke in parables it was to bring into light that which was once in darkness.
Look at all the times in scripture Jesus spoke a parable and the Scribes and the Pharisees perceived that He spoke it of them. These were not humble men, but proud and haughty men and the parable Jesus spoke opened their eyes to the truth.
A parable is to bring to light that which was in darkness.

Matthew 13:34-35
34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: 35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.
If this scripture is true then the thought that Jesus spoke in parables to hide the secrets CANNOT be correct.
A parable is something that is used to set side by side with the truth in order to illuminate the truth. It is not set side by side with the truth in order to hide the truth.
Jesus being the truth and the light can only speak truth and light, therefore He does not hide the light in a parable He uses a parable to illuminate the light.
So let’s set side by side the KJV and Young’s literal (YL) and see if we can understand if these parables were to illuminate or to hide the meaning.

KJV
Matthew 13:10-23
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

YL
10 And the disciples having come near, said to him, `Wherefore in similes dost thou speak to them?'

This is pretty plain; the disciples are asking Jesus why He spoke unto the multitudes in parables.

KJV
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

YL
11 And he answering said to them that -- `To you it hath been given to know the secrets of the reign of the heavens, and to these it hath not been given,

Jesus answer to the question is The Child of God knows the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven and to those who are without it has not been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus did not speak the parables so the child of God would know the mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven, He spoke in parables so that those without could understand the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven.
To put it in our everyday language
Why do you speak to them in parables? Because they do not know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus spoke the parables that they might know the mysteries, as the mysteries were already given to the child of God.

This is brought out more fully here

KJV
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

YL
12 for whoever hath, it shall be given to him, and he shall have overabundance, and whoever hath not, even that which he hath shall be taken from him. 13 `Because of this, in similes do I speak to them, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor understand,

Jesus continues to explain why He speaks to them in parables.
The question is still why do you speak to them in parables.
Jesus answer is because they seeing do not see and hearing do not hear, nor understand.

To put it in our everyday language.
Why do you speak to them in parables? Because they do not know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven and because they seeing do not see and they hearing do not hear, nor understand.

Jesus is NOT saying He speaks in parables so that those seeing would not see and those hearing would not hear. He IS saying He speaks in parables because they do not see, hear or understand.

Jesus is bringing to light those things they do not understand.


KJV
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15 For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

YL
14 and fulfilled on them is the prophecy of Isaiah, that saith, With hearing ye shall hear, and ye shall not understand, and seeing ye shall see, and ye shall not perceive, 15for made gross was the heart of this people, and with the ears they heard heavily, and their eyes they did close, lest they might see with the eyes, and with the ears might hear, and with the heart understand, and turn back, and I might heal them.


These scriptures are misunderstood by those who believe Jesus spoke in parables in order to hide His message.

Their understanding goes something like this.
Jesus hides the truth in parables so that the multitudes would NOT turn to Him, would not be converted and so could not be healed.

This understanding is in total disregards to what Jesus said why He spoke to the multitudes in parables. It is also in disregards to His purpose in coming into the world to save everyone in it.


What those scriptures are saying is that Isaiah prophesied that the multitudes in Jesus day would be hearing, and not hear, seeing, and not see because their heart had waxed gross. Jesus is saying because of these things, the heart waxing gross, the heavy ears, the closed eyes is the reason He had to speak to them in parables.

Why do you speak to them in parables? Because they do not know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven and because they seeing do not see and they hearing do not hear, nor understand.

This all comes to a head here the accumulation of what was said regarding the reason Jesus spoke in parables.

KJV
34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: 35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

YL
' 34 All these things spake Jesus in similes to the multitudes, and without a simile he was not speaking to them, 35that it might be fulfilled that was spoken through the prophet, saying, `I will open in similes my mouth, I will utter things having been hidden from the foundation of the world.'

So the answer to whys Jesus spoke in parables is this.
Because they do not know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven and because they seeing do not see and they hearing do not hear, nor understand. I open my mouth in parables to utter things that have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Jesus did not utter parables to keep hidden the secrets, but to illuminate the secrets that were hidden from the foundation of the world.
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Old 12-03-2014, 12:49 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,955,553 times
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But Pneuma, if that is true, how can these "believers" maintain their exclusive club?
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Old 12-03-2014, 04:23 AM
 
9,917 posts, read 1,293,683 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
You don't think the "sinners" needed to hear that message as much as the Pharisees, so that they could also know they were loved and welcomed with open arms by God, in contrast to what the religious leaders had been telling them?
What I think makes no difference. What the Scriptures say answers pcamps question. He stated that in Luke 15:1, Jesus was speaking to sinners. The parables were directed at the Pharisees and not at the sinners who had drawn near to hear Him speak. Read it for yourself.
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Old 12-03-2014, 05:03 AM
 
Location: New England
37,340 posts, read 28,369,636 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
What I think makes no difference. What the Scriptures say answers pcamps question. He stated that in Luke 15:1, Jesus was speaking to sinners. The parables were directed at the Pharisees and not at the sinners who had drawn near to hear Him speak. Read it for yourself.
Jesus spoke in parables and proverbs to his disciples, the blind leaders of the blind and sinners. John 16:25
That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake. Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. Then he told them many things in parables. Matthew13:1-2
Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything
to them without using a parable Matthew 13:34

Last edited by pcamps; 12-03-2014 at 05:20 AM..
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Old 12-03-2014, 05:24 AM
 
Location: New England
37,340 posts, read 28,369,636 times
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if the same Jesus Christ showed up in the flesh today today, he would be welcomed by the same kind of folk and rejected by the same kind of folk, and those who rejected him would stir up the folk who had him accepted to have him crucified.
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Old 12-03-2014, 05:33 AM
 
Location: New England
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I also find it interesting that even though Jesus spoke to the crowds in parables they still flocked to hear him. It says somewhere that they had never heard anyone speak like him before.
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Old 12-03-2014, 07:54 AM
 
4,217 posts, read 2,793,179 times
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The secrets of the kingdom of God are known to the servants of God but to those outside it is not revealed. It is pretty plain. How can anyone turn that around is a wonder.

Then the disciples came and asked him, "Why do you speak to them in parables?"
11 He answered, "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.

"The Lord's power shall be known to His servants but to His enemies His wrath."
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Old 12-03-2014, 08:09 AM
 
Location: USA
17,164 posts, read 11,427,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
What I think makes no difference. What the Scriptures say answers pcamps question. He stated that in Luke 15:1, Jesus was speaking to sinners. The parables were directed at the Pharisees and not at the sinners who had drawn near to hear Him speak. Read it for yourself.
I did read it. And my question was rhetorical. I believe that Jesus would have known that both the Pharisees and those oppressed by the teachings of their religious leaders needed to hear those stories. They were not intended for the Pharisees alone, just as the words spoken to the crowd were not intended for only the disciples.
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Old 12-03-2014, 08:16 AM
 
Location: USA
17,164 posts, read 11,427,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
What I think makes no difference. What the Scriptures say answers pcamps question. He stated that in Luke 15:1, Jesus was speaking to sinners. The parables were directed at the Pharisees and not at the sinners who had drawn near to hear Him speak. Read it for yourself.
Btw Katie ... you are sharing what you think. And what you think does make a difference.
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Old 12-03-2014, 10:28 AM
 
4,217 posts, read 2,793,179 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
if the same Jesus Christ showed up in the flesh today today, he would be welcomed by the same kind of folk and rejected by the same kind of folk, and those who rejected him would stir up the folk who had him accepted to have him crucified.
The word has shown up and you have rejected him.
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