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If GOD did not come to this earth in Jesus the Christ to save us from our sinful condition there would be no hope for us.
We would be left here to destroy ourselves in the most gruesome way, as this is our nature evidenced by what we see.. just turn on the news.
BUT thankfully God has not left us all alone to fend for ourselves to be King of the Mountain.. the sole lonely soul promised the glory of this fading passing disappointing world never to be remembered again except maybe a picture in a history book or some old used up song that no one wants to sing or hear.
Maybe they'll make a statue, but it's all VANITY.
Do we really think George Washington cares at ALL about this country right now?
What about his relationship with God? The source of all life and peace...?
Only one reconciliation .. through JEsus Christ.. but we have to find this out for our selves.. by the Grace of God of course.. God is good!
The LOVE of God demonstrated through Christ on the Cross is what draws sinners to a Holy God. He died so we don't have to.
The crusades were brutal land and power grabs and they were divided many times, with one crusade attacking fellow Christians in Constantinople. Each one got worse, though the 1st one showed such beauty by slaughtering virtually everyone in Jerusalem including fellow Christians who lived there. Not an accomplishment showing progress of any kind ... and as a Christian I see that clearly.
brutality and power grabs pretty much defined the entire world back then.
the crusades brought eastern knowledge to the west. and that inspired the enlightenment.
If GOD did not come to this earth in Jesus the Christ to save us from our sinful condition there would be no hope for us.
If God did not send His Son, there would be no hope.
God can't die.
KJV John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Re: ' the pagan Romans instituted systems that boggled the mind'..
Yes we can't deny that. But I think what's interesting is that as Christianity became to infuse itself into the Empire and enmesh itself very closely with populations paganism really died a slow death. Yes it existed for a few centuries but eventually it sank to the depths. Due to Christianity? Did Christianitykill it off ? Perhaps but it wasn't a violent destruction. In hindsight it looks like paganism just didn't have the intellectual and spiritual heft to keep itself alive. Yes it died a slow death.
IMO, the Romans did much more as far as advancement before Christianity (the "pagan" Romans instituted systems that absolutely boggled the mind of the rest of the world, at least those portions of the world that witnessed them); and then after Christianity was formally "adopted," it was a good 1500 years before we saw giant leaps of progress again, with the Enlightenment, which actually focused less on religion and more on logic and science.
roman paganism was weak and went the way of the dinosaurs.
yeah it took christianity 1500 years. but compare that with other religions. hinduism has been around for 5000 years!
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ
It would almost seem (as a generalization, of course...there were advancements; there are always advancements) that Christianity halted progress - social, industrial, medical; in some ways, intellectual - for a good 1400 years. One thing that did bloom during the first thousand or so years of Christianity was art, though - at least some forms. However, I can't see any reason that would be because of Christianity, nor to assume that it wouldn't have happened without Christianity.
every religion opposed progress in way or another. but which other religion had priests or clerics who championed science as much as christianity did? look at this guy:
He wasnt just Father Mendel, catholic priest. He was also Gregor Mendel Father of Genetics!
If God did not send His Son, there would be no hope.
God can't die.
KJV John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
So what was all this about?
Rev 1:17-18 "When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, "Fear not, I am the first and the last, 18 and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades. ""
IMO, the Romans did much more as far as advancement before Christianity (the "pagan" Romans instituted systems that absolutely boggled the mind of the rest of the world, at least those portions of the world that witnessed them); and then after Christianity was formally "adopted," it was a good 1500 years before we saw giant leaps of progress again, with the Enlightenment, which actually focused less on religion and more on logic and science.
Since the Enlightenment we have seen absolutely gigantic leaps, and particularly in approximately the last 125 years or so, when blind Christian belief was on a significant and unprecedented decline. Forced belief and torture went out; progress came in.
It would almost seem (as a generalization, of course...there were advancements; there are always advancements) that Christianity halted progress - social, industrial, medical; in some ways, intellectual - for a good 1400 years. One thing that did bloom during the first thousand or so years of Christianity was art, though - at least some forms. However, I can't see any reason that would be because of Christianity, nor to assume that it wouldn't have happened without Christianity.
As far as ideals of love, charity, spiritualism and so forth, those existed long before Christianity, and there are other religions that espouse these that are older than Christianity and are extant. Still going strong. So I don't think Christianity "gave" us those ideals either, nor that the world would have been without them had there been no Christianity. Obviously, the world would have had them as we know that the world did have them.
The role of the Catholic Church in Western civilization has been intricately intertwined with the history and formation of Western society. Through its long history, the church has been a major source of social services like schooling and medical care; inspiration for Western art, culture and philosophy; and influential player in politics and religion. In various ways it has sought to affect Western attitudes to vice and virtue in diverse fields. It has, over many centuries, promulgated the teachings of Jesus within the Western World and remains a source of continuity linking modern Western culture to classical Western culture.
While the West is no longer universally Catholic, the Catholic heritage remains strong in Western countries: festivals like Easter and Christmas are marked universally as public holidays; Pope Gregory XIII's Gregorian Calendar has been adopted internationally as the civil calendar; and time itself is measured by the West from the assumed date of the birth of the Church's founder, Jesus of Nazareth: the Year One AD (Anno Domini, and not year "0" which doesn't exist in this system).
The cultural influence of the Church has been vast. Church scholars preserved literacy in Western Europe following the Fall of Rome. During the Middle Ages, the Church rose to replace the Roman Empire as the unifying force in Europe. The cathedrals of that age remain among the most iconic feats of architecture produced by Western civilization. Many of Europe's universities were also founded by the church at that time. The Reformation brought an end to religious unity in the West, but the Renaissance masterpieces produced by Catholic artists like Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and Raphael at that time remain among the most celebrated works of art ever produced. Similarly, Catholic sacred music by composers like Vivaldi, Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Shubert and Verdi is among the most admired classical music in the Western canon.
The papacy has been intricately involved in European politics: Pope Leo the Great met Attila the Hun in 452, and persuaded him to turn back from his invasion of Italy; Pope Leo III proclaimed Charlemagne as King of the Romans at the foundation of the Holy Roman Empire; Pope Clement VII refused to annul the marriage of Henry VIII, thus prompting the English Reformation; and Pope John Paul II is widely credited as having hastened the Collapse of Communism in Europe. Rivalry between princes and popes and theological disputes contributed to several political conflicts in Western history, but the papacy also acted as peace broker and arbiter between rival rulers. Many have criticized actions of the church that had a profound effect on Western society; of particular note are the harsh practices of the Roman and Spanish Inquisitions, the suppression of the ideas of Galileo Galilei, and the church's historical treatment of women. Into the modern era, the church has remained prominent in topical debates: from the 1839 papal condemnation of slavery, to 1937's papal attack on Nazism, to Pope John Paul II's condemnations of the Iraq War of 2003, the church has tried to fulfill a compassionate role in the world.
The Bible and Catholic theology have also strongly influenced Western philosophers and political activists. The teachings of Jesus, such as the Parable of the Good Samaritan, are among the important sources for modern notions of Human Rights and the welfare measures commonly provided by governments in the West. Long held Catholic teachings on sexuality and marriage have also been both influential and (in recent times) controversial.
Catholicism played a role in ending practices such as human sacrifice, slavery,[1] infanticide and polygamy.[2] Christianity in general affected the status of women by condemning infanticide (female infants were more likely to be killed), divorce, incest, polygamy, birth control, abortion and marital infidelity.[3] While official Church teaching[4] considers women and men to be complementary (equal and different), some modern "advocates of ordination of women and other feminists" argue that teachings attributed to St. Paul and those of the Fathers of the Church and Scholastic theologians advanced the notion of a divinely ordained female inferiority.[5] Nevertheless, women have played prominent roles in Western history through the Catholic Church, particularly in education and healthcare, but also as influential theologians and mystics. The important status of the Virgin Mary gave notions of maternal virtue and compassion a place at the heart of Western civilization.
While the Church has clashed throughout history with rival Western forces such as paganism, Orthodox Christianity, Protestantism, and communism and its influence is much diminished from its zenith, the immensity of the Catholic contribution to the West's heritage is undeniable. Catholicism is still the majority religion of several major Western countries, including Brazil, Mexico, Italy, France, Spain, and Poland and it is the religious affiliation of a significant and growing minority in countries like the United States and Australia.
Re: ' the pagan Romans instituted systems that boggled the mind'..
Yes we can't deny that. But I think what's interesting is that as Christianity became to infuse itself into the Empire and enmesh itself very closely with populations paganism really died a slow death. Yes it existed for a few centuries but eventually it sank to the depths. Due to Christianity? Did Christianitykill it off ? Perhaps but it wasn't a violent destruction. In hindsight it looks like paganism just didn't have the intellectual and spiritual heft to keep itself alive. Yes it died a slow death.
It didn't die, it integrated and became part of that Church".
Rev 1:17-18 "When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, "Fear not, I am the first and the last, 18 and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades. ""
God can't die.
In context it is not speaking of being "THE First and Last", rather the first and last who died and was directly raised to immortal life by his Father, Context.
In checking in a bit over 20 Bibles only 5 capitalized the "First/Last" making it a name or title, the rest use lowercase showing it is a description not identity. Thus to claim it a Title or a claiming of identity as God is very questionable and eliminates it being used to prove anything in that line of thought.
Plus verse 1 shows Jesus is not God.
KJV Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Re: 'paganism...it didn't die..it integrated and became part of the Church'
On that I'd say the integration occurred only with outward manifestations of worship or rubrics in the liturgy and practice of the Church. You wouldn't be saying the early Church would have Christians espousing specifically pagan approaches to beliefs after that 'integration' ??
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