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Old 01-14-2015, 02:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzyrules View Post
1. That vision of hell is exactly that. A vision. Like a dream, you cannot interpret it literally. There are good and bad creatures in everyone. The "old" creature is the only thing that burns in hell. The false literal view is how fundamentalism starts.

2. I prayed already. That is how i got the understanding i am revealing to you now.

2 things you can bet on..

1. Jesus did not die in vain.
2. God will be true to all his promises concerning his only son jesus.
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Old 01-14-2015, 02:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
The point of the "Gospel is nonsense to wise men" is this. To any unregenerate person the gospel is not only nonsense it's also as it says elsewhere in the bible, "An offence". Paul knew very well that the Gospel is absolute in it's truth. He also knew without any doubt whatsoever, that it's a truth that can not be either understood or believed by anyone unless God opens their blinded eyes.

That is a common theme all throughout the scriptures. What do you think Jesus meant when he said "They have ears but they can not hear, they have eyes but they can not see". He did not say they won't hear or see, he said they CANNOT. The point is well illustrated when Jesus said, "Even if they SEE a dead man raised to life they will not believe".

Man's Moral Inability - Covenant of Grace Church
The idea of "unregenerate" is a heresy. That is nowhere in the Bible.

"Having eyes but cannot see." This is describing orthodox Christian believers. They put all their faith into their belief itself. But they care nothing about the message of the prophets. They worship the big worldly powers of wealth and finance. They care nothing about their fellow man. Just like their bank accounts, they hope to secure a future salvation that they can finally enjoy after they die *physically*, which will be based on nothing that they experience right now, because they know the darkness in their hearts will not get them there. But they are not even aware that they are in Hell at this moment. They can't see their hands in front of their faces. The only salvation is occurring now, and they are not capable of seeing the kingdom which is "in their midst".
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Old 01-14-2015, 02:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HushWhisper View Post
2 things you can bet on..

1. Jesus did not die in vain.
2. God will be true to all his promises concerning his only son jesus.
Straw.
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Old 01-14-2015, 02:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
Straw.
Straw burns.

God's promises won't.
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Old 01-14-2015, 05:57 PM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,195,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
1. That vision of Hell is exactly that. A vision. Like a dream, you cannot interpret it literally. There are good and bad creatures in everyone. The "old" creature is the only thing that burns in Hell. The false literal view is how fundamentalism starts.
Yet...Jesus spoke of this place. Weird, huh?
Quote:

2. I prayed already. That is how I got the understanding I am revealing to you now.
I prayed and I got a different understanding. Which one of us is right?

I would suggest the one that is right is the one that has an understanding that agrees with Scripture.
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Old 01-14-2015, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,016 posts, read 12,580,750 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
The idea of "unregenerate" is a heresy. That is nowhere in the Bible.

"Having eyes but cannot see." This is describing orthodox Christian believers. They put all their faith into their belief itself. But they care nothing about the message of the prophets. They worship the big worldly powers of wealth and finance. They care nothing about their fellow man. Just like their bank accounts, they hope to secure a future salvation that they can finally enjoy after they die *physically*, which will be based on nothing that they experience right now, because they know the darkness in their hearts will not get them there. But they are not even aware that they are in Hell at this moment. They can't see their hands in front of their faces. The only salvation is occurring now, and they are not capable of seeing the kingdom which is "in their midst".
"you must be born again" These are the words of Jesus. "Born again" in synonymous with regenerate. Actually it's everywhere in the bible. From a Christian point of view your post is absolute nonsense.

Bible verses related to Regeneration from the King James Version (KJV) by Relevance

Titus 3:5 - Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Ezekiel 36:26 - A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Acts 2:38 - Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 16:31 - And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

1 John 3:9 - Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Ephesians 2:1 - And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;

John 6:44 - No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 3:5 - Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

1 John 5:1 - Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

1 Peter 1:23 - Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

James 1:18 - Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

John 3:1-36 - There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: (Read More...)

1 John 5:18 - We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

1 John 5:5 - Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

1 John 3:14 - We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not [his] brother abideth in death.

1 John 2:29 - If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

Ephesians 2:10 - For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, (Read More...)

Acts 16:14 - And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard [us]: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

John 10:10 - The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have [it] more abundantly.

John 6:47 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

1 John 5:4 - For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith.

1 Peter 5:8 - Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

1 Peter 1:3 - Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Colossians 3:10 - And have put on the new [man], which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Ephesians 4:21-24 - If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: (Read More...)

Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (Read More...)

Galatians 2:20 - I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

1 Peter 2:3 - If so be ye have tasted that the Lord [is] gracious.

Hebrews 10:23 - Let us hold fast the profession of [our] faith without wavering; (for he [is] faithful that promised

Hebrews 10:17 - And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Hebrews 10:16 - This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Hebrews 8:10 - For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Philippians 1:6 - Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:

2 Corinthians 5:17 - Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

2 Corinthians 1:21 - Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, [is] God;

1 Corinthians 6:11 - And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Romans 8:2-6 - For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. (Read More...)

Romans 7:24 - O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

John 20:31 - But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 8:36 - If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

John 6:57 - As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

John 6:50 - This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

John 1:13 - Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Matthew 13:23 - But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth [it]; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Zechariah 12:10 - And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.

Ezekiel 36:27 - And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them].

Psalms 65:3 - Iniquities prevail against me: [as for] our transgressions, thou shalt purge them away.

Psalms 51:10 - Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

Psalms 51:2 - Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.

1 John 5:12 - He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

1 John 5:11 - And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

1 John 3:5 - And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

1 John 2:27 - But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

2 Peter 1:4 - Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

2 Peter 1:3 - According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

1 Peter 3:21 - The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 3:18 - For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

1 Peter 1:22 - Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, [see that ye] love one another with a pure heart fervently:

1 Peter 1:2 - Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

James 5:19 - Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

Hebrews 10:22 - Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Hebrews 8:11 - And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Hebrews 6:4-6 - For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, (Read More...)

Hebrews 4:1-12 - Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left [us] of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. (Read More...)

Titus 3:6 - Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

Colossians 3:9 - Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

Colossians 2:11-13 - In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: (Read More...)

Ephesians 5:14 - Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

Ephesians 4:16 - From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Ephesians 4:8 - Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

Ephesians 4:7 - But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

Ephesians 2:5 - Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Galatians 6:15 - For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Galatians 4:29 - But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him [that was born] after the Spirit, even so [it is] now.

2 Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

2 Corinthians 5:5 - Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing [is] God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 4:6 - For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to [give] the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 3:18 - But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, [even] as by the Spirit of the Lord.

2 Corinthians 3:3 - [Forasmuch as ye are] manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

2 Corinthians 1:22 - Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

1 Corinthians 15:10 - But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which [was bestowed] upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

1 Corinthians 12:6 - And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

1 Corinthians 3:9 - For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building.

1 Corinthians 3:7 - So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

1 Corinthians 3:6 - I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

1 Corinthians 2:14-16 - But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. (Read More...)

1 Corinthians 2:12 - Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

1 Corinthians 1:30 - But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

1 Corinthians 1:24 - But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

1 Corinthians 1:9 - God [is] faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 15:16 - That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

Romans 12:2 - And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Romans 8:13-16 - For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. (Read More...)

Romans 8:9 - But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


Some scripture references/categories courtesy of Open Bible .info under CC BY 3.0



Related Bible Dictionary Terms:
Regeneration


Search the King James Version (KJV) for more references about Regeneration...
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Old 01-14-2015, 08:31 PM
 
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The problem is that most Christians are clueless about what any of those verses really mean. They are just looking for a quick prayer/belief that will get them into Heaven, but they could care less about what loving God means. They could memorize that entire list and it would mean nothing to them in the end. What are the true principals that faith represents? Most people who are truly "regenerated" as you put it may not have any regard for the Bible or even religion at all. God looks at the heart.
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Old 01-14-2015, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
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Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
The problem is that most Christians are clueless about what any of those verses really mean. They are just looking for a quick prayer/belief that will get them into Heaven, but they could care less about what loving God means. They could memorize that entire list and it would mean nothing to them in the end. What are the true principals that faith represents? Most people who are truly "regenerated" as you put it may not have any regard for the Bible or even religion at all. God looks at the heart.
What you are saying has some truth to it but you are missing an essential element. The gospel message is very simple. What a person has to know in order to be saved is not a lot. Very primitive people can become Christians. People with very limited intelligence can also. However the basic message of the good news is essential in coming to faith. You have to know that Jesus came, lived, died and rose from the dead in order to forgive your sin. You have to trust in that and in that alone for your eternal future.

God does not look at the heart. If he did I would be in big trouble. The closer to God one gets that more aware we become of the truly deplorable state of our hearts. Try as I do my heart still harbours all kinds of sin. Pride, selfishness, lusts of different kinds, envy, strife and just on and on. Although we try hard to be righteous we fail miserably. When God looks at me and judges me it's my representative that he sees. That is what the cross means. I have a substitute that stands in my place before God. He has paid the penalty for my sin and God sees me washed as white as snow.

We are not saved by works we perform but by the perfect works of our Lord Jesus done on our behalf.
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Old 01-15-2015, 04:11 AM
 
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Christians always talk about the sin in their hearts. They don't realize they are living in darkness at this moment. I was living that way for many years when I was an evangelical Christian. When I left that belief behind it was as if God was lifting me out of hell. I felt like the rich man who became Lazarus. When I look at fundamentalist Christians now I see something in their faces not found in other people. And to me it does not look good.

I don't know what other religious experiences are like. But I do understand Christianity because I was raised as a fundamentalist, like you are now. But I imagine anyone who has a "belief" based faith is probably in the same kind of torment if they have not overcome it.

As far as what Paul believed. Maybe there was some truth to it. Maybe it is a little helpful for some people. But it is not healthy to stay in that state of belief. Or perhaps, it is not good for everyone. He said that it saved people from despair. But to me it caused despair. How could I love an imaginary God who created a place of endless torment? I realized that was an invention of man. But a man who believes in that, and who thinks that he loves that type of God, must be in a dark place.
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Old 01-15-2015, 05:05 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Yet...Paul actually met the resurrected Christ. He spoke to him. He understood that Jesus died and rose again. In 1 Cor he's making the case that it is foolishness..yes. People cannot be convinced without God working on their hearts. Even so, as he said in Romans....he is not ashamed.
...
Paul, according to Paul, met the resurrected Jesus, either in a vision, dream or hallucination. Just think if someone today told you the same story and wished it to be the framework of a radical new theology. Would you buy it? No, Paul never really met Jesus, but he was a damned good salesman.
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