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Old 01-25-2015, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,381,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
All Church-age believers in Christ Jesus will take part in the rapture event. Both the living who are alive on the earth at the time of the rapture, and the dead who are in Christ and are presently in heaven.
No such animal, until you are born anew.
Which also applies to this life, and the ...

... renewing of the heart and mind.
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Old 01-25-2015, 04:05 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
No such animal, until you are born anew.
Which also applies to this life, and the ...

... renewing of the heart and mind.
All believers in Christ Jesus ARE born again as of the moment of initial faith in Christ and will be in the rapture which occurs at the end of the Church-age.
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Old 01-25-2015, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Arizona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
All believers in Christ Jesus ARE born again as of the moment of initial faith in Christ and will be in the rapture which occurs at the end of the Church-age.
Born again, carries the connotation of "anew" or that of "renewing," there is no rapture.


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Old 01-25-2015, 05:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
All believers in Christ Jesus ARE born again as of the moment of initial faith in Christ and will be in the rapture which occurs at the end of the Church-age.

Ephesians 4:22-24------ one must strip off the old personality( worker of iniquity=practice of sin) and put on the new personality( righteousness)

this takes time and much effort.

the great will not be changed in the twinkling of an eye--only the little flock--there are very few on earth. I showed you the scriptures proving it.
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Old 01-25-2015, 05:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The entire Church will be involved in the rapture. Those Church-age believers who have died and are in heaven will return with Christ to the clouds in the air, while those believers who are alive on the earth at the time of the rapture will be caught up into the air and transformed (1 Thess. 4:13-17). The entire Church will then be taken into heaven until the end of the Tribulation.

The 144,000 mentioned in Revelation 14:3 have nothing to do with the Church. They are Jewish believers during the Tribulation. The Church will be raptured before the Tribulation begins.

Jewish have rejected Jesus for over 1950 years--they have 0 chance with God-- spiritual Israel( matt 21:43 is clear--it is given to someone else to be Gods chosen--spiritual Israel is correct) is Gods chosen now--Jewish who have come to the light( Jesus) and gentiles are included)--the 12 tribes listed in Rev are not the 12 tribes in the ot--2 are different signifying--spiritual Israel.
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Old 01-26-2015, 09:36 AM
 
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If the church is going to be taken to heaven during the rapture and then come back, does that mean God has been preparing Heaven for us, only to destroy it after 7 years since there is going to be a new heaven and earth? The pretrib rapture doesnt add up/
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Old 01-26-2015, 09:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
Jewish have rejected Jesus for over 1950 years--they have 0 chance with God-- spiritual Israel( matt 21:43 is clear--it is given to someone else to be Gods chosen--spiritual Israel is correct) is Gods chosen now--Jewish who have come to the light( Jesus) and gentiles are included)--the 12 tribes listed in Rev are not the 12 tribes in the ot--2 are different signifying--spiritual Israel.

The Jews are pretty much going to accept the antichrist as their Messiah.
John 5:42-44

42 but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. 43 I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him. 44 How can you believe since you accept glory from one another but do not seek the glory that comes from the only God[a]?
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Old 01-26-2015, 09:50 AM
 
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I've often felt that the feelings of fundamentalists towards Jews is ambivalent. On the one hand, they are so opposed religiously with their sola fide beliefs and their belief that "the Jews" rejected and even murdered Jesus, yet on the other, they need the Jews for their fantasies of Armagedon.
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Old 01-26-2015, 09:53 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,281 posts, read 26,487,831 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
Jewish have rejected Jesus for over 1950 years--they have 0 chance with God-- spiritual Israel( matt 21:43 is clear--it is given to someone else to be Gods chosen--spiritual Israel is correct) is Gods chosen now--Jewish who have come to the light( Jesus) and gentiles are included)--the 12 tribes listed in Rev are not the 12 tribes in the ot--2 are different signifying--spiritual Israel.
You have already been shown in another thread that Israel has only been temporarily set aside.

Paul made it clear that Israel has only been temporarily set aside until the times of the Gentiles has come in.
Romans 11:25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26] And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
When Christ returns He will establish His Messianic kingdom at which time the covenants I previously mentioned which God made to Israel will be fulfilled. Again, the Church is not spiritual Israel. The Church is the Church. Israel is Israel. Replacement theology which claims that the promises that God made to Israel have been transferred to the Church is simply not true.

Jesus Himself made it clear that He will restore Israel.
Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing! 38] "Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! 39] For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’”
The judgments of the future Tribulation (Daniel's seventieth week [Dan. 9:27]; the time of Jacob's trouble [Jer. 30:7]) are designed to bring the Jews to the realization that Jesus is the Messiah that they rejected. At that time Jesus will return and defend Israel from its enemies (Zechariah chapter 14).
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Old 01-26-2015, 09:57 AM
 
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Uhhh, just a thought.

How do we know the Rapture is anything like depicted in Left Behind? For one, if we are raptured and sent to the New Earth (vs New Heaven), would we perceptionally notice anything had changed, besides Earth getting alot better? Would those who hadn't been raptured notice anything besides their world getting alot worse? For that matter, the tribulation to speak of, might be so subtle that it seems like ordinary life.

If this is the case, how would we know it hasn't taken place already. How, for that matter, don't we know that Jesus hasn't already come again?
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