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Old 11-25-2015, 08:41 PM
 
32,516 posts, read 37,168,702 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
And I will never apologize for standing up for the truth..
Yep. You learned that in church.

Fundamentalism is notorious for followers who wrap themselves in the cloak of religion so they can be rude.
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Old 11-25-2015, 08:45 PM
 
1,788 posts, read 1,171,851 times
Reputation: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
Yep. You learned that in church.

Fundamentalism is notorious for followers who wrap themselves in the cloak if religion so they can be rude.
"rude"?? You kidding me?
If that ain't the pot calling the kettle black.
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Old 11-25-2015, 08:59 PM
 
32,516 posts, read 37,168,702 times
Reputation: 32581
Quote:
Originally Posted by HushWhisper View Post
Careful, there. You could leave a heck of a mark.
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Old 11-25-2015, 09:01 PM
 
1,788 posts, read 1,171,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
Careful, there. You could leave a heck of a mark.
...better than the one you're going to get
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Old 11-25-2015, 10:48 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
10,688 posts, read 7,711,531 times
Reputation: 4674
Default Satan is NOT the Devil

Satan is a concept introduced to us in the OT. But he is not the "Devil" introduced in the NT. Most christians conflate the two. The Devil is a relatively modern creation of early christians that seems to be a force of evil who has decision making power.

Satan of the Hebrews, however, is a completely different entity and hasn't been described by anybody on this thread who claims to be christian (at least as much as I was willing to endure going back through recent posts).

Quote:
Hebrew Scriptures tell of a character called The Satan. Every time the term is used in the Hebrew Scriptures, it reads, HaSaTaN, which means THE Satan. When the definite article, 'the,' is in front of a word it indicates a title, like 'the rabbi,' or 'the reverend.' So, in the Bible, the term 'HaSatan,' which means, 'The Satan,' is a title. The one with that title has a specific job, the same way it is used in speaking of 'the rabbi,' or of 'the reverend.'

The concept of The Satan, or the job description, is radically different from that of the devil. For Christians, who erroneously use the two terms as if they are synonymous, the devil has power and authority in and of himself. However, in the Bible, The Satan only has power granted by Gd, and has no authority in and of himself. For the devil to have power and authority is to have more than one Gd, as we saw above concerning the Greeks and the Romans.

The Satan is described in only a few places in the Hebrew Scriptures. In every instance, he is an angel who works FOR Gd, not against Gd, and must get permission from Gd for everything that he does. Chronicles, Job, Psalms, and Zechariah are the only places where The Satan is mentioned. In each instance, the job description of The Satan is to act like what we now call a Prosecuting Attorney, or District Attorney, and accuse and show evidence against the defendant. Furthermore, like a D.A., The Satan must obtain permission from Gd, the Judge, to begin a sting operation.

In the following quotation from the Book of Job, please take note of who is doing the talking, as The Satan asks Gd for permission to conduct a 'sting operation' against Job:

And the Etrnl said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth Gd, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause. And Satan answered the Etrnl, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life. But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face. And the Etrnl said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life. [Job 2:3-6]

In the above verses, The Satan must get permission from Gd to perform this sting operation on Job. The Satan has no power or authority of his own, just like a District Attorney who must also obtain permission from The Judge for anything he does.

Furthermore, the biblical text paints this same picture of The Satan, when it uses the character of The Satan in what appears to be the end of a court scene. In the following two quotations, The Satan is standing near the accused like the D.A. stands at the end of a court drama on television. In the verses from Zechariah, Gd is siding with the defense against The Satan, on behalf of Joshua the high priest. Joshua had been sent into exile where he paid for his sins, and now purified like a brand plucked out of a fire, Gd allowed him to return to Jerusalem against the wishes of The Satan:

And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Etrnl, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him. And the Etrnl said unto Satan, 'The Etrnl rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Etrnl that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?' [Zechariah 3:1-2]

Set thou a wicked man over him, and let Satan stand at his right hand. When he shall be judged, let him be condemned, and let his prayer become sin. [Psalm 109:6-7]

As we see from Psalm 109 above, the Satan again is like the District Attorney who prosecutes the wicked man.

In the Bible there is also a verse which show that it is Gd, the Creator and Ruler of the whole universe, who is responsible for both the Good and the Bad, and not a devil or Gd of the underworld:
I am the Etrnl, and there is none else, there is no Gd beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Etrnl, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Etrnl do all these things. [Isaiah 45:5-7]
What Jews Believe: Essay #7: Satan Not Devil Rabbi Stuart Federow
At best, christianity misinterpreted the Jewish Satan. At worst, they reinterpreted him to be a thinking, controlling entity.

Satan is the Adversary. He is a useful tool of God for the Jews allowing them to look at their own selves better and with a more honest eye. The Devil is a creation used by christians to be the whipping boy for their own personal sinfulness--as in "the devil got a hold of me"---and is a convenient excuse for "shortcomings" that need to be explained away.

Believing that the Devil is a little "god" wandering around looking to infect people or whisk them away simply points out how far from MONOTHEISM is the christianity of today. Instead we have a tiering of the "gods."

The number of people on this thread who want to deny that THE Satan is a tool of God will equal the number of people who need a Devil to excuse their own indiscretions of any kind. In addition, they destroy the true meaning of The Satan in the OT, because the Devil in the NT is comparatively unrecognizable to The Satan of the Hebrews.
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Old 11-26-2015, 03:40 AM
 
1,788 posts, read 1,171,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
Satan is a concept introduced to us in the OT. But he is not the "Devil" introduced in the NT. Most christians conflate the two. The Devil is a relatively modern creation of early christians that seems to be a force of evil who has decision making power.

Satan of the Hebrews, however, is a completely different entity and hasn't been described by anybody on this thread who claims to be christian (at least as much as I was willing to endure going back through recent posts).

What Jews Believe: Essay #7: Satan Not Devil Rabbi Stuart Federow
At best, christianity misinterpreted the Jewish Satan. At worst, they reinterpreted him to be a thinking, controlling entity.

Satan is the Adversary. He is a useful tool of God for the Jews allowing them to look at their own selves better and with a more honest eye. The Devil is a creation used by christians to be the whipping boy for their own personal sinfulness--as in "the devil got a hold of me"---and is a convenient excuse for "shortcomings" that need to be explained away.

Believing that the Devil is a little "god" wandering around looking to infect people or whisk them away simply points out how far from MONOTHEISM is the christianity of today. Instead we have a tiering of the "gods."

The number of people on this thread who want to deny that THE Satan is a tool of God will equal the number of people who need a Devil to excuse their own indiscretions of any kind. In addition, they destroy the true meaning of The Satan in the OT, because the Devil in the NT is comparatively unrecognizable to The Satan of the Hebrews.
=father of all lies
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Old 11-26-2015, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,354,085 times
Reputation: 2296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I've said nothing for which to apologize. And I will never apologize for standing up for the truth.
And yes, I am leaving the thread as there is simply no point in remaining on it.
I would never expect you to humble yourself, it's not in your nature.
And you are not standing up for the truth in my humble opinion.

You merely repeat the ignorance of yesterday.
Following cleverly devised fables, created by men.

The angelic conflict story is
fictitious, it's not real or true.
It's a
fabrication and/or figment of man's imagination.



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Old 11-26-2015, 08:03 AM
 
1,788 posts, read 1,171,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
I would never expect you to humble yourself, it's not in your nature.
And you are not standing up for the truth in my humble opinion.

You merely repeat the ignorance of yesterday.
Following cleverly devised fables, created by men.

The angelic conflict story is
fictitious, it's not real or true.
It's a
fabrication and/or figment of man's imagination.



God created this, NOT man and to date, no one has dis-proven it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K2XfdCjXfk
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Old 11-26-2015, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
10,688 posts, read 7,711,531 times
Reputation: 4674
Quote:
Originally Posted by HushWhisper View Post
=father of all lies
=unbelief when smacked in the face with T R U T H.

Satan is God's tool as proven by the OT. Any other thought makes him/she/it a "god."

I believe in One God.
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Old 11-26-2015, 03:26 PM
 
1,788 posts, read 1,171,851 times
Reputation: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
=unbelief when smacked in the face with T R U T H.

Satan is God's tool as proven by the OT. Any other thought makes him/she/it a "god."

I believe in One God.
I choose Jesus T R U T H over yours
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