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Old 02-17-2015, 06:46 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,100 posts, read 796,881 times
Reputation: 129

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Trust Jesus Christ as your personal Good Shepherd to help you know not to drink at all if you cannot drink without getting drunk, and then trust Him to help you not to drink any alcohol at all. Here's why.

Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Salvation is not at stake, but being left behind at the pre tribulational rapture event as a castaway is.

Run by faith in Jesus Christ as your personal Good Shepherd & rely on Him all the time to help you overcome so that you may be received by the Bridegroom to attend the Marriage Supper in His honour.

Psalm 118:8 It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man.

Psalm 100:3 Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

1 John 5:1Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him....4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

1 Corinthians 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. 13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Hebrews 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: 7 Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace. 8 For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ. 9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure....8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
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Old 02-17-2015, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Florida
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Alcohol, among many other things, can come between God and man and quench the Spirit. The habit of getting drunk will prevent the Spirit from acting in a Christians life, and it will result in a fruitless walk. However, there ARE Christians who drink too much. They need to pray for God to help them deal with that problem.
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Old 02-17-2015, 07:36 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,100 posts, read 796,881 times
Reputation: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Alcohol, among many other things, can come between God and man and quench the Spirit. The habit of getting drunk will prevent the Spirit from acting in a Christians life, and it will result in a fruitless walk. However, there ARE Christians who drink too much. They need to pray for God to help them deal with that problem.
Plus, we are called to be a witness of Him to the world.

John 7: The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

1 Peter 4:1Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; 2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. 3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: 4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you: 5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. 6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. 7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer
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Old 02-17-2015, 08:09 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,266 posts, read 26,477,412 times
Reputation: 16380
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorInSpirit View Post
Trust Jesus Christ as your personal Good Shepherd to help you know not to drink at all if you cannot drink without getting drunk, and then trust Him to help you not to drink any alcohol at all. Here's why.

Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Salvation is not at stake, but being left behind at the pre tribulational rapture event as a castaway is.

Run by faith in Jesus Christ as your personal Good Shepherd & rely on Him all the time to help you overcome so that you may be received by the Bridegroom to attend the Marriage Supper in His honour.

Psalm 118:8 It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man.

Psalm 100:3 Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

1 John 5:1Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him....4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

1 Corinthians 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. 13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Hebrews 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: 7 Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace. 8 For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ. 9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure....8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
If you believe that any Christian will be left behind when the rapture occurs then you are actually a proponent of the partial rapture theory rather than a proponent of the pre-tribulational rapture. The pre-tribulational rapture is Biblical. The partial rapture theory is not. The article below discusses the fallacy of the idea that any Christian will be left behind at the rapture.

SECTION I: KEPT FROM THE HOUR
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Old 02-17-2015, 08:45 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,100 posts, read 796,881 times
Reputation: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
If you believe that any Christian will be left behind when the rapture occurs then you are actually a proponent of the partial rapture theory rather than a proponent of the pre-tribulational rapture. The pre-tribulational rapture is Biblical. The partial rapture theory is not. The article below discusses the fallacy of the idea that any Christian will be left behind at the rapture.

SECTION I: KEPT FROM THE HOUR
Thank you for sharing, and I understand your point of view but the opposing view does not address all the scripture that serves as a warning to believers why they would be left behind.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Explain the use of castaway if that is not indicative towards Paul if he did not run for the prize? This is not for salvation; but for attending the Marriage Supper.

2 Corinthians 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Believers should know that there is forgiveness since there is a call to repentance by looking to Him for help.

The warnings should be taken seriously as coming from Jesus about being ready & found abiding in Him.

John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

Abiding in Him & His words by faith in the Son of God as our personal Good Shepherd is how saved believers are known as His disciples and thus are "chosen" for the Marriage Supper.

John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. 15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. 16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. 17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

Feel free to ask Jesus for help in seeing His answer to Peter's question below because there is a cutting off and a casting away of those not prepared to meet Him when the Bridegroom comes.

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

It is because the foundation remains is why the believers left behind are still in His House, but are reprobates and thus castaways in becoming vessels unto dishonour in His House.

We can trust Jesus in the keeping of their souls while they suffer the coming fire on the earth and the subsequent great tribulation.

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

The view you have presented would suggest that those professing ones left behind were never saved, but not so. You can't have a falling away from the faith unless they had faith, and therefore, they are saved.

Any work of iniquity is what denies Him and by that iniquity, they will be denied.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Hopefully, the Lord will help you to see that saved believers have a race to be run and it is still by faith in the Son of God as we can only live this reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God...........25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: 26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. 27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. 28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: 29 For our God is a consuming fire.
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Old 02-17-2015, 11:14 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,266 posts, read 26,477,412 times
Reputation: 16380
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorInSpirit View Post
Thank you for sharing, and I understand your point of view but the opposing view does not address all the scripture that serves as a warning to believers why they would be left behind.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Explain the use of castaway if that is not indicative towards Paul if he did not run for the prize? This is not for salvation; but for attending the Marriage Supper.

2 Corinthians 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Believers should know that there is forgiveness since there is a call to repentance by looking to Him for help.

The warnings should be taken seriously as coming from Jesus about being ready & found abiding in Him.

John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

Abiding in Him & His words by faith in the Son of God as our personal Good Shepherd is how saved believers are known as His disciples and thus are "chosen" for the Marriage Supper.

John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. 15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. 16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. 17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

Feel free to ask Jesus for help in seeing His answer to Peter's question below because there is a cutting off and a casting away of those not prepared to meet Him when the Bridegroom comes.

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

It is because the foundation remains is why the believers left behind are still in His House, but are reprobates and thus castaways in becoming vessels unto dishonour in His House.

We can trust Jesus in the keeping of their souls while they suffer the coming fire on the earth and the subsequent great tribulation.

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

The view you have presented would suggest that those professing ones left behind were never saved, but not so. You can't have a falling away from the faith unless they had faith, and therefore, they are saved.

Any work of iniquity is what denies Him and by that iniquity, they will be denied.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Hopefully, the Lord will help you to see that saved believers have a race to be run and it is still by faith in the Son of God as we can only live this reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God...........25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: 26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. 27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. 28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: 29 For our God is a consuming fire.
You are confusing and equating the rapture of the Church with rewards. The rapture and resurrection of the Church is not a reward which must be earned but is instead the prophetic event which will terminate the Church-age. The entire Church which consists of all Church-age believers will take part in the rapture and resurrection of the Church. This includes the dead in Christ who are currently in heaven, and all Church-age believers who are alive on the earth when the rapture takes place. The Tribulation which will occur during Daniel's 70th week cannot begin as long as the Church is on the earth. Since the Church is one body in Christ no believer can be left behind.

In 1 Cor. 9:24-27 Paul is talking about rewards. In 9:27 the word ἀδόκιμος - adokimos is more properly translated as 'disqualified' or 'unapproved' rather than 'castaway' as the KJV has it. Paul's concern is about not being unapproved or disqualified for rewards. Again, the rapture of the Church is not a reward.

Luke 12:40-49 seems to apply to Israel during the Tribulation rather than to Christians during this present Church-age. There are parallels between Luke 12:39-46 and the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24:43-51 which deals with the Tribulation and the Second Advent of Christ (not with the pre-tribulational rapture of the Church).

In 2 Tim. 2:11-13 verse 12 is about the fact that the believer who endures will reign with Christ while the believer who denies Christ will be denied rulership responsibilities in the kingdom. It has nothing to do with being left behind at the rapture of the Church.

The only ones who will be 'left behind' are indeed unbelievers. No Church-age believer will be left behind. The partial rapture theory is simply not Biblical.
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Old 02-17-2015, 04:32 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,100 posts, read 796,881 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The only ones who will be 'left behind' are indeed unbelievers. No Church-age believer will be left behind. The partial rapture theory is simply not Biblical.
It's Biblical, but apparently, He will have to show this truth to you. Jesus did not give all of those warnings if it did not apply to saved believers. Certainly, His warnings were not for unbelievers.

Revelations 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
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Old 02-17-2015, 05:22 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,266 posts, read 26,477,412 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorInSpirit View Post
It's Biblical, but apparently, He will have to show this truth to you. Jesus did not give all of those warnings if it did not apply to saved believers. Certainly, His warnings were not for unbelievers.

Revelations 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Just because the words 'great tribulation' are used in Revelation 2:22 does not mean that Jesus was referring to the seven year Tribulation which is Daniel's 70th week which is called the time of Jacob's trouble in Jeremiah 30:7.

The seven churches of Asia which are addressed in Revelation chapters two and three are representative of churches throughout the Church-age. The church in Thyatira to whom Revelation 2:22 is addressed did not go through the Tribulation of Daniel's 70th week which historically has not as yet happened. Nor has any other local church. The word 'tribulation' refers to persecution, affliction, distress. Certainly many local churches throughout the history of the Church-age have undergone discipline and judgment. That in no way however implies that any Church-age believer will be left behind at the still future rapture of the Church.

For reasons already covered both by me, and in the article I provided, the partial rapture theory is not Biblical. The entire church, the entire body of Christ will be raptured prior to the Tribulation and taken up into heaven to undergo the judgment seat of Christ, followed by the marriage of the Lamb.

I realize that no matter what I say, those who believe in the partial rapture theory, or in the post Tribulational rapture theory, or in the mid-tribulational rapture theory, or who don't believe that there will be any rapture at all, will go on believing what they believe. But a literal understanding of Scripture points to a pre-tribulational rapture in which all believers will be raptured.

Here again is the article which explains the error of the partial rapture theory. Whether or not you are willing to attempt to objectively study the matter is up to you. - SECTION I: KEPT FROM THE HOUR

And that is all I'm going to say on the issue.
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Old 02-18-2015, 08:51 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,100 posts, read 796,881 times
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Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Just because the words 'great tribulation' are used in Revelation 2:22 does not mean that Jesus was referring to the seven year Tribulation which is Daniel's 70th week which is called the time of Jacob's trouble in Jeremiah 30:7.

The seven churches of Asia which are addressed in Revelation chapters two and three are representative of churches throughout the Church-age. The church in Thyatira to whom Revelation 2:22 is addressed did not go through the Tribulation of Daniel's 70th week which historically has not as yet happened. Nor has any other local church. The word 'tribulation' refers to persecution, affliction, distress. Certainly many local churches throughout the history of the Church-age have undergone discipline and judgment. That in no way however implies that any Church-age believer will be left behind at the still future rapture of the Church.

For reasons already covered both by me, and in the article I provided, the partial rapture theory is not Biblical. The entire church, the entire body of Christ will be raptured prior to the Tribulation and taken up into heaven to undergo the judgment seat of Christ, followed by the marriage of the Lamb.

I realize that no matter what I say, those who believe in the partial rapture theory, or in the post Tribulational rapture theory, or in the mid-tribulational rapture theory, or who don't believe that there will be any rapture at all, will go on believing what they believe. But a literal understanding of Scripture points to a pre-tribulational rapture in which all believers will be raptured.

Here again is the article which explains the error of the partial rapture theory. Whether or not you are willing to attempt to objectively study the matter is up to you. - SECTION I: KEPT FROM THE HOUR

And that is all I'm going to say on the issue.
Thank you for sharing. I am still in disagreement.

For the readers; Jesus spoke of tribulation and then there is to be a great tribulation.

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

The apostle John recording everything he had heard and seen as led by the Holy Spirit, I would have to say that John referenced the great tribulation as a consequence for saved believers that did not depart from iniquity with His help as the Good Shepherd before the Bridegroom had come.

Revelations 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

The reason why God would judge saved believers in this manner is mentioned in the following verse below.

23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Romans 8:1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.....13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

The punishment is physical death which is why those left behind will be given that punishment for defiling the temple of God when that judgement of fire comes on the earth which serves as a catalyst for the coming great tribulation of the new world order & her mark of the beast system to buy & sell to survive.

It should be noted that the punishment for taking the mark of the beast is the second death; the eternal torment in the lake of fire. The unrepentant & those former believers of these saved believers left behind to suffer the great tribulation will be kept from taking the mark by Him as promised that He will lose nothing of all the Father has given Him, but not every one professing Him will be ready to go as found abiding in Him & His words as His disciples when the Bridegroom comes;

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
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Old 02-18-2015, 08:54 AM
 
Location: USA
18,502 posts, read 9,172,720 times
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"Obey me, or else." Sounds like a hostage situation.
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