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Interesting essay written by Garry Wills author of Papal Sin, which should be a must read for all Catholics.
Hmm...after the Tartuffian breast - beating, what we got was a bit more keep the cover up going "I’d be prepared to go to jail rather than harm one of my priests."
and make out it's anyone's fault rather than blame the Priests.
"The harm, you notice, was to the priests, not to the children they preyed on. The priests, Rodriguez said, can “also be victims.”
I'm not one to use this as a way of discrediting the Church or Christianity, but I am frankly, disgusted at the way the cover up is still being perpetrated. I believe that this abuse is still going on. It hasn't stopped and the present abuses are still being covered up. And they don't even have the bad excuse that they were unaware.
They are now aware. But we are getting cover - up, transfer the blame and We are So Persecuted. It sounds just like the mucky business with MP's expenses.
Wills apparently had promise at one time, but drifted pretty far to the liberal/Left judging by this and other things.
It's sad that the Old Catholic Church, the schism that rejected Vatican I, doesn't do more to reach out to guys like Wills who clearly don't fit into the Roman Catholic Church and the rites in communion to Rome. I also keep hoping Andrew Sullivan will become an Old Catholic, almost prayed for it once, but as the OCC is in communion with the Anglicans he likely wouldn't consider. Also they're apparently just not good at evangelism or are too localized.
Granted I'm not OCCA at all, but I do wish people would not feel they have to stay RCC out of some misplaced notions they have or ethnic solidarity. Once such people leave possibly Catholics can focus on finding theologically and morally justifiable solutions to the problems we have at present rather than having to "re-debate the wheel" with people who think the faith has been wrong since Pope Gregory I.
May be going off topic, but it doesn't impress us godless when it becomes such an issue with various sects and splits in what should be a simple 'We believe Jesus rose from the dead and so will we if we have Faith'.
We atheists, having no tenets, Dogma or theology, just say 'there is no good evidence so we don't believe'. Apart from that, we are all different, and good luck.
I've never claimed Catholicism should be as simple as atheism or be "Nicene Creed alone." In fact it being complicated is part of the appeal to me. Life contains many complicated situations and people are complicated. Also I didn't say Wills should stop being Christian or even stop being some kind of Catholic.
Lastly although impressing atheists is nice I actually don't find it to be strictly speaking necessary when discussing my religion or any other religion. In most discussions of religion I may not even care about what does or doesn't impress atheists just as I'm sure you don't think too much about what will or won't impress Catholics or Mormons or Baha'i when talking to non-theists.
I've never claimed Catholicism should be as simple as atheism or be "Nicene Creed alone." In fact it being complicated is part of the appeal to me. Life contains many complicated situations and people are complicated. Also I didn't say Wills should stop being Christian or even stop being some kind of Catholic.
Lastly although impressing atheists is nice I actually don't find it to be strictly speaking necessary when discussing my religion or any other religion. In most discussions of religion I may not even care about what does or doesn't impress atheists just as I'm sure you don't think too much about what will or won't impress Catholics or Mormons or Baha'i when talking to non-theists.
The ability to religiously impress or not impress the atheist public would be of little importance in any debate related to religious views with the non religious.
The article seemed to review the tip of the iceburg, and did not touch the issue raised in the article’s title. I have been curious how members of the Catholic organization could still support the management. If I were to reduce the issue to something simple, other than the billion member organization, say a book club, and if the book club had supported rules which caused the death or an individual, would you still remain in that club? I as a member of humanity would not, and would take a very poor view of the club. My question would be when you look at the history of the Catholic Church, or even Christianity and see 200,000,000 bodies with numbers still growing due to poor decision made by the organizations, how can members justify still supporting them. As an Atheist my view and action would be quick and simple, but it seems if a person follows the views of a religious organization they disassociate themselves from the poor decisions of the organization they fund and support, and condone their actions. Do those actions not make them accomplices in the actions of their organization?
I still see Gandhi’s quote as summing up my views on christianity, “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians”
I've never claimed Catholicism should be as simple as atheism or be "Nicene Creed alone." In fact it being complicated is part of the appeal to me. Life contains many complicated situations and people are complicated. Also I didn't say Wills should stop being Christian or even stop being some kind of Catholic.
What appeals to you about catholicism is up to you of course. And if you go along with one or the other othodox lines that apparently tells a lot of others (who considered that they were as good catholics as any other) that they are not because they are not wearing the current fashon of (metaphorical) hats, that's your choice too.
Quote:
Lastly although impressing atheists is nice I actually don't find it to be strictly speaking necessary when discussing my religion or any other religion. In most discussions of religion I may not even care about what does or doesn't impress atheists just as I'm sure you don't think too much about what will or won't impress Catholics or Mormons or Baha'i when talking to non-theists.
Of course, when I am talking about impressing others, I have in mind what seems to make rational sense. It is important to me, not that atheism is pleasant or looks good or pleases people, but that it makes sense using the only worthwhile tools, logic and reason as well as (scientific) evidence.
Logically it seems off beam that, where you have a pretty basic Faith - one size fits all - that there should be this flurry about who is wearing the right kind of hat. As you say, you may love all that stuff and you may even think it matters, theologically. It may not bother you that the historical Jesus would probably have considered that with bewilderment if not horror, or that he might have pointed out (in Aramaic) that this was just the sort of thing he was beating the Pharisees up about.
As you say, that may not be a concern to you and even the intricacies of ritual and theology may what you like. I, however, like to point out to those who may trouble to consider such matters, that it doesn't look very impressive, which is where I came in.
Wills apparently had promise at one time, but drifted pretty far to the liberal/Left judging by this and other things.
It's sad that the Old Catholic Church, the schism that rejected Vatican I, doesn't do more to reach out to guys like Wills who clearly don't fit into the Roman Catholic Church and the rites in communion to Rome. I also keep hoping Andrew Sullivan will become an Old Catholic, almost prayed for it once, but as the OCC is in communion with the Anglicans he likely wouldn't consider. Also they're apparently just not good at evangelism or are too localized.
Granted I'm not OCCA at all, but I do wish people would not feel they have to stay RCC out of some misplaced notions they have or ethnic solidarity. Once such people leave possibly Catholics can focus on finding theologically and morally justifiable solutions to the problems we have at present rather than having to "re-debate the wheel" with people who think the faith has been wrong since Pope Gregory I.
Garry Wills is a practicing Catholic in good standings with the Church.
He prays the rosary daily and has recently written a book on the rosary.
I find attacks on him by those that practice their Catholic faith blindly to be unwarranted.
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