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So we put faith in a book of words, which may or may not be more than 80% accurate and ignore a personal relationship with God, via Jesus, who is supposed to (if you believe) send the Holy Spirit who will assist us in discerning the truth of the word.
So essentially, the bible is of little use, other than a lesson in feel good (if we leave out all the murder, rape and pillage) theology because the Holy Spirit is given to us (if you accept this) to guide and provide understanding to each of us?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsApt
Honestly this post makes no sense
Ears will hear and eyes will see, others will just bounce off walls they cannot see as they run around never to hear the directions given to avoid those walls.
But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.-----------------1 Corinthians 1:27
What a simple verse to sling so early in the mourning...
The bottom line is . . . we cannot use the Bible as the end all and be all of truth without TESTING the verses against the Spirit of agape love who IS God. There are too many errors and corruptions from the interpretations of men under the veil of ignorance over reading the OT and sometimes the outright lying of the Scribes.
But if God said a man laying down with another man is an abomination to him, how then can we as believers who claim to Love God, then back a LGBT lifestyle or gay marriages, when God himself said a man and woman will leave their parents and become one. If Noah's family all decided to live a LGBT lifestyle off the boat, we would have no human beings on the earth today.
The bottom line is . . . we cannot use the Bible as the end all and be all of truth without TESTING the verses against the Spirit of agape love who IS God. There are too many errors and corruptions from the interpretations of men under the veil of ignorance over reading the OT and sometimes the outright lying of the Scribes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
But if God said a man laying down with another man is an abomination to him, how then can we as believers who claim to Love God, then back a LGBT lifestyle or gay marriages, when God himself said a man and woman will leave their parents and become one. If Noah's family all decided to live a LGBT lifestyle off the boat, we would have no human beings on the earth today.
No one is advocating for (or "backing" as you said) a Gay lifestyle. Who are we to "back" or not "back" anything? Our God left us to our own devices and gave us Dominion down here on Earth. Why do you think he wants us to enforce His rules on anyone else when He doesn't?? What we are advocating for is equal treatment under our secular laws, period. It has nothing to do with God. Try to understand . . . what God wants is between you and God . . . no one else. Each of us will reap whatever we sow and nothing anyone else does or does not do will matter one whit.
But if God said a man laying down with another man is an abomination to him, how then can we as believers who claim to Love God, then back a LGBT lifestyle or gay marriages, when God himself said a man and woman will leave their parents and become one. If Noah's family all decided to live a LGBT lifestyle off the boat, we would have no human beings on the earth today.
This is still an opinion and one group's interpretation of what they want to believe is true, just a society used the bible to justify slavery, Misogynistic behavior to control women and keep them silent, to justify paying taxes (circa pre-1950s) to justify NOT paying taxes (circa post 1970s), to justify child abuse by not sparing the rod, etc..
So wouldn't it be more sensible if both sides of the Marriage Equality discussion just leave it alone and live-and-let-live?
By gosh darn, I AGREE. Maybe then we can get all these off the wall theories and patriarchal practices and draconian ideas out of the church once and for all..
As a Christian i think I am entitled to this much..
So what is your definition of sexual immorality?
Is it okay for a guy and girl to have as much sex as they want if they are not married?
Look at Lev 18 where God defined the laws of Sexual Morality.
Leviticus 18 (NKJV)
Laws of Sexual Morality
18 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘I am the Lord your God. 3 According to the doings of the land of Egypt, where you dwelt, you shall not do; and according to the doings of the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you, you shall not do; nor shall you walk in their ordinances. 4 You shall observe My judgments and keep My ordinances, to walk in them: I am the Lord your God. 5 You shall therefore keep My statutes and My judgments, which if a man does, he shall live by them: I am the Lord.
6 ‘None of you shall approach anyone who is near of kin to him, to uncover his nakedness: I am the Lord. 7 The nakedness of your father or the nakedness of your mother you shall not uncover. She is your mother; you shall not uncover her nakedness.
8 The nakedness of your father’s wife you shall not uncover; it is your father’s nakedness.
9 The nakedness of your sister, the daughter of your father, or the daughter of your mother, whether born at home or elsewhere, their nakedness you shall not uncover.
10 The nakedness of your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter, their nakedness you shall not uncover; for theirs is your own nakedness.
11 The nakedness of your father’s wife’s daughter, begotten by your father—she is your sister—you shall not uncover her nakedness.
12 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s sister; she is near of kin to your father.
13 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother’s sister, for she is near of kin to your mother.
14 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s brother. You shall not approach his wife; she is your aunt.
15 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your daughter-in-law—she is your son’s wife—you shall not uncover her nakedness.
16 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your brother’s wife; it is your brother’s nakedness.
17 You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, nor shall you take her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter, to uncover her nakedness. They are near of kin to her. It is wickedness.
18 Nor shall you take a woman as a rival to her sister, to uncover her nakedness while the other is alive.
19 ‘Also you shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness as long as she is in her customary impurity.
20 Moreover you shall not lie carnally with your neighbor’s wife, to defile yourself with her. 21 And you shall not let any of your descendants pass through the fire to Molech, nor shall you profane the name of your God: I am the Lord.
22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. 23 Nor shall you mate with any animal, to defile yourself with it. Nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it. It is perversion.
24 ‘Do not defile yourselves with any of these things; for by all these the nations are defiled, which I am casting out before you. 25 For the land is defiled; therefore I visit the punishment of its iniquity upon it, and the land vomits out its inhabitants. 26 You shall therefore keep My statutes and My judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations, either any of your own nation or any stranger who dwells among you 27 (for all these abominations the men of the land have done, who were before you, and thus the land is defiled), 28 lest the land vomit you out also when you defile it, as it vomited out the nations that were before you. 29 For whoever commits any of these abominations, the persons who commit them shall be cut off from among their people.
30 ‘Therefore you shall keep My ordinance, so that you do not commit any of these abominable customs which were committed before you, and that you do not defile yourselves by them: I am the Lord your God.’”
Is it okay for a guy and girl to have as much sex as they want if they are not married?
Look at Lev 18 where God defined the laws of Sexual Morality.
Leviticus 18 (NKJV)
Laws of Sexual Morality
18 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘I am the Lord your God. 3 According to the doings of the land of Egypt, where you dwelt, you shall not do; and according to the doings of the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you, you shall not do; nor shall you walk in their ordinances. 4 You shall observe My judgments and keep My ordinances, to walk in them: I am the Lord your God. 5 You shall therefore keep My statutes and My judgments, which if a man does, he shall live by them: I am the Lord.
6 ‘None of you shall approach anyone who is near of kin to him, to uncover his nakedness: I am the Lord. 7 The nakedness of your father or the nakedness of your mother you shall not uncover. She is your mother; you shall not uncover her nakedness.
8 The nakedness of your father’s wife you shall not uncover; it is your father’s nakedness.
9 The nakedness of your sister, the daughter of your father, or the daughter of your mother, whether born at home or elsewhere, their nakedness you shall not uncover.
10 The nakedness of your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter, their nakedness you shall not uncover; for theirs is your own nakedness.
11 The nakedness of your father’s wife’s daughter, begotten by your father—she is your sister—you shall not uncover her nakedness.
12 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s sister; she is near of kin to your father.
13 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother’s sister, for she is near of kin to your mother.
14 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s brother. You shall not approach his wife; she is your aunt.
15 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your daughter-in-law—she is your son’s wife—you shall not uncover her nakedness.
16 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your brother’s wife; it is your brother’s nakedness.
17 You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, nor shall you take her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter, to uncover her nakedness. They are near of kin to her. It is wickedness.
18 Nor shall you take a woman as a rival to her sister, to uncover her nakedness while the other is alive.
19 ‘Also you shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness as long as she is in her customary impurity.
20 Moreover you shall not lie carnally with your neighbor’s wife, to defile yourself with her. 21 And you shall not let any of your descendants pass through the fire to Molech, nor shall you profane the name of your God: I am the Lord.
22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. 23 Nor shall you mate with any animal, to defile yourself with it. Nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it. It is perversion.
24 ‘Do not defile yourselves with any of these things; for by all these the nations are defiled, which I am casting out before you. 25 For the land is defiled; therefore I visit the punishment of its iniquity upon it, and the land vomits out its inhabitants. 26 You shall therefore keep My statutes and My judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations, either any of your own nation or any stranger who dwells among you 27 (for all these abominations the men of the land have done, who were before you, and thus the land is defiled), 28 lest the land vomit you out also when you defile it, as it vomited out the nations that were before you. 29 For whoever commits any of these abominations, the persons who commit them shall be cut off from among their people.
30 ‘Therefore you shall keep My ordinance, so that you do not commit any of these abominable customs which were committed before you, and that you do not defile yourselves by them: I am the Lord your God.’”
WHAT IS WITH ALL THIS SEXUAL FRUSTRATION? My post has NOTHING to do with sexual immorality, either real or imagined..
BUT yes,if TWO adults want to partake in sexual intercourse and both are willing and consent, just give them the keys to a room and let them go..
IF this is a "sin" LET GOD SORT IT OUT, IT IS NOT MY JOB TO LEGISLATE MORALITY>>
When evangelicals call for legislating alcohol, gambling, guns, misogynistic behavior, and the other 613 LAWS, I might listen then--BUT THAT IS HIGHLY DOUBTFUL..but I am willing to say MIGHT..
No one is advocating for (or "backing" as you said) a Gay lifestyle. Who are we to "back" or not "back" anything? Our God left us to our own devices and gave us Dominion down here on Earth. Why do you think he wants us to enforce His rules on anyone else when He doesn't?? What we are advocating for is equal treatment under our secular laws, period. It has nothing to do with God. Try to understand . . . what God wants is between you and God . . . no one else. Each of us will reap whatever we sow and nothing anyone else does or does not do will matter one whit.
WHAT IS WITH ALL THIS SEXUAL FRUSTRATION? My post has NOTHING to do with sexual immorality, either real or imagined..
BUT yes,if TWO adults want to partake in sexual intercourse and both are willing and consent, just give them the keys to a room and let them go..
IF this is a "sin" LET GOD SORT IT OUT, IT IS NOT MY JOB TO LEGISLATE MORALITY>>
When evangelicals call for legislating alcohol, gambling, guns, misogynistic behavior, and the other 613 LAWS, I might listen then--BUT THAT IS HIGHLY DOUBTFUL..but I am willing to say MIGHT..
My point was, it goes back to the original post. If we have no standard of what our morals are defined by, then we can pretty much do as we please and as Christians should not even bother trying to save unbelievers if we dont care anything about the word of God, why should they care or even want to be saved if in the end, since both the believer and unbeliever have the same lifestyles.
The word Holy means to be set apart, so a guy and girl that feel each other and are not married want to go at it all the time, they are no different than atheist doing the same exact behavior. It not your God to legislate morality, but as a Christian that you claim to be, you should not be encouraging sin either, when the bible say as Christians we should be supporting one another to live Holy.
Is it okay for a guy and girl to have as much sex as they want if they are not married?
Look at Lev 18 where God defined the laws of Sexual Morality.
Leviticus 18 (NKJV)
Laws of Sexual Morality
18 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘I am the Lord your God. 3 According to the doings of the land of Egypt, where you dwelt, you shall not do; and according to the doings of the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you, you shall not do; nor shall you walk in their ordinances. 4 You shall observe My judgments and keep My ordinances, to walk in them: I am the Lord your God. 5 You shall therefore keep My statutes and My judgments, which if a man does, he shall live by them: I am the Lord.
6 ‘None of you shall approach anyone who is near of kin to him, to uncover his nakedness: I am the Lord. 7 The nakedness of your father or the nakedness of your mother you shall not uncover. She is your mother; you shall not uncover her nakedness.
8 The nakedness of your father’s wife you shall not uncover; it is your father’s nakedness.
9 The nakedness of your sister, the daughter of your father, or the daughter of your mother, whether born at home or elsewhere, their nakedness you shall not uncover.
10 The nakedness of your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter, their nakedness you shall not uncover; for theirs is your own nakedness.
11 The nakedness of your father’s wife’s daughter, begotten by your father—she is your sister—you shall not uncover her nakedness.
12 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s sister; she is near of kin to your father.
13 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother’s sister, for she is near of kin to your mother.
14 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s brother. You shall not approach his wife; she is your aunt.
15 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your daughter-in-law—she is your son’s wife—you shall not uncover her nakedness.
16 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your brother’s wife; it is your brother’s nakedness.
17 You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, nor shall you take her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter, to uncover her nakedness. They are near of kin to her. It is wickedness.
18 Nor shall you take a woman as a rival to her sister, to uncover her nakedness while the other is alive.
19 ‘Also you shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness as long as she is in her customary impurity.
20 Moreover you shall not lie carnally with your neighbor’s wife, to defile yourself with her. 21 And you shall not let any of your descendants pass through the fire to Molech, nor shall you profane the name of your God: I am the Lord.
22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. 23 Nor shall you mate with any animal, to defile yourself with it. Nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it. It is perversion.
24 ‘Do not defile yourselves with any of these things; for by all these the nations are defiled, which I am casting out before you. 25 For the land is defiled; therefore I visit the punishment of its iniquity upon it, and the land vomits out its inhabitants. 26 You shall therefore keep My statutes and My judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations, either any of your own nation or any stranger who dwells among you 27 (for all these abominations the men of the land have done, who were before you, and thus the land is defiled), 28 lest the land vomit you out also when you defile it, as it vomited out the nations that were before you. 29 For whoever commits any of these abominations, the persons who commit them shall be cut off from among their people.
30 ‘Therefore you shall keep My ordinance, so that you do not commit any of these abominable customs which were committed before you, and that you do not defile yourselves by them: I am the Lord your God.’”
So look at verse 12. Was God angry with Abraham for marrying his half sister or lying about the fact to an Egyptian leader? Please don't make up an explanatory story, I'm just interested in what God's perfect Word says about it.
Or how about verse 18? It doesn't appear God was overly concerned with Jacob marring both Rachel and Leah. Just God's Word now, no story that you will want to imbue with infallibility the way you do scripture.
The fact is, God either CHANGED His viewpoint, or Leviticus was written within a cultural context of separating the Israelites from the pagan peoples in the land. You just lift Leviticus from its cultural context of 2600 year old Palestine and try to drop it in 21st century America. And you don't keep all of it, you pick and choose PARTS of it. Do you cut your hair you sinner? Did you ever plant a garden with two different kinds of seed, you apostate?
And any bologna you want to offer about two different covenants is destroyed by Paul stating that to keep any LAW you must keep them all.
And that is why, for Christians, much of the OT is garbage.
I'll be happy to point out plenty of other parts of the OT that are garbage in your mind as well. In fact, my own personal Bible study is currently on Leviticus 23.
You don't have trust in the Bible. You have trust in your prejudice.
My point was, it goes back to the original post. If we have no standard of what our morals are defined by, then we can pretty much do as we please and as Christians should not even bother trying to save unbelievers if we dont care anything about the word of God, why should they care or even want to be saved if in the end, since both the believer and unbeliever have the same lifestyles.
The word Holy means to be set apart, so a guy and girl that feel each other and are not married want to go at it all the time, they are no different than atheist doing the same exact behavior. It not your God to legislate morality, but as a Christian that you claim to be, you should not be encouraging sin either, when the bible say as Christians we should be supporting one another to live Holy.
Set apart for what ? For you to walk in mercy, justice and humility,you are not set apart to decide what is morally right and wrong concerning another. Walk in this burden which is light indeed and everything else will take care of itself.
Call your friend and tell them you haven't received your invite yet, and that you would be honored to attend as a life long friend.
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