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To the OP ... a similar question could be asked where Jesus spoke to God in the Garden of Gethsemane (Luke 22:39-46) while the disciples slept. He was alone at the time ...no one there to record his conversation at all. Similarly so with Matthew 4:1-11 where Jesus encounters Satan.
Incidentally, regarding 'the Holy Spirit' ...I've come across people from all denominations who claim to have an infilling of the HS. Problem is ...the Holy Spirit has a tendency to give people conflicting messages, hence the many different Christian denominations. How does that work . . .?
Satan's spirit fills many and they think it is God's.
That means the supposed books of Enoch are fakes, which is why those with His wisdom will find it as going against the accepted scripture in the KJV Bible.
That's exactly why the explanation for why things in Matthew and nowhere else have to be false. The other disciples ought to have known about the massacre of the children at Bethlehem and the whole star and Herod story and the supposed tomb -guard, not to mention the raising of Lazarus and all those Lucan parables that never got a mention in the other gospels. And also the involvement of Nicodemus whom the other evangelists have never heard of, nor the spear -thrust or a single one of the theological sermons in John. Isn't it crystal clear that they each made this stuff up out of their own heads?
I believe John covered that point.
John 21:24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. 25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
So as led by the Holy Ghost, the four gospels can vary in covering different accounts from their perspective.
Matthew was a tax collecter and would have knowledge of the census. He may have been old enough to know about the massacre. It is not that hard to fathom.
Here's a link to a skeptic's article on the Star of Bethlehem addressing the film "Christmas Star" in showing historical & astronomical data & how the author's view has been enlightened by it.
Course, if you are going to point out that it is in the entertainment secition and you do not care to objectively peruse it any further then try this one in the science section.
Point is; there are alot of ways to approach witnessing about Jesus Christ; from their perspective, their experiences, and their social relations; you can find that about any one you would write about in real life..except the difference here is, the Holy Spirit's guiding them so they do not get His messages wrong. They may report some of the message whereas another report another part of it, but the topic is the same as per Matthew 7:13-27 & Luke 13:24-30 that there will be a falling away from the faith before His return as the Bridegroom to take the abiding bride of Christ to the Marriage Supper at the pre tribulational rapture event.
So you can rest in your laurels as a lifetime atheist that you believe you have thoroughly researched the points of contentions that you have as if there are no rooms for rebuttals and doubts or you can set your lifetime atheist award aside and look again.
Here is an article on a credible research mentioned as to why the "Massacre of innocents" was not written by Josephus.
Some other points may inspire you to search again, if the Lord is willing to. I know that sinners will resists no matter what, but God may perform a miracle as He did on Saul before he became Paul.
Julius Africanus, writing around 221 AD, found a reference in the writings of Thallus, who wrote a history of the Eastern Mediterranean around 52 AD, which dealt with the darkness that covered the land during Jesus' crucifixion:
"Thallus, in the third book of his histories, explains away the darkness as an eclipse of the sun--unreasonably, as it seems to me." [A solar eclipse could not take place during a full moon, as was the case during Passover season.]
For showing how the books of Enoch are fakes, true, but as for keeping His words for us to have as His disciples to discern good & evil in these latter days? No. Only the Lord Jesus Christ can show you why the KJV is the one to rely on when questions arises as to the meaning of His words in keeping with His messages that we are to have.
Jesus foretold the need to lean on Him for wisdom in discerning which document source to rely on; the ones from Antioch where the disciples studied for a year or Alexandrian where poetic licensing and gnosticism was known to exist.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
This is why so many believers are falling in these "movements of the 'spirit' ", think those seducing spirits are the Holy Spirit coming and falling on them to cause them to fall like that. They do so in hypocrisey in stating that the Holy Spirit is in them, but they still seek to "receive" Him again and again and again after a sign... even the sign of tongues that comes with no interpretation.
Other translations of Romans 8:26-27 are responsible for misleading believers into thinking that the Holy Spirit makes His own intercessions directly Himself rather than how the KJV has it by having Another Person knowing the mind of the Spirit in giving the Spirit's intercessions because they are unspeakable when He can only speak what He hears ( John 16:13 ) in being the Spirit of the Father when Christ was on earth and now that Christ has ascended, in being the Spirit of Christ in sharing His words to us ( John 16:14-15 ). This is in according to the will of God as Jesus is the only Mediator between God and man.
But not only do all other translations suggests that the Holy Spirit does it Himself, but that sounds are being made when these intercessions are given, thus alluding to tongues without interpretation being used as a prayer language.
And some even commit a grammatical error in changing out the "he" in Romans 8:27 to be about the Holy Spirit as if the Holy Spirit is the One that searches our hearts & knows the mind of the Spirit when this "he" is separate from us in searching our hearts & separate from the Spirit to be knowing the mind of that this "he" cannot be the Spirit.
Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV
Romans 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God. NIV's grammatical error
Matthew 6:7-8 debunks the necessity for the Spirit to say anything thru us to God the Father if the Father knows before we ask anything in prayer because of Jesus searching our hearts as per Hebrews 4:12-16 and so the idea of a secret communication to hide from the devil is bogus when the devil cannot do anything without God's permission anyway as the Book of Job teaches us.
It is God's will to give thanks to Jesus Christ and God the Father in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ because the Son is the One answering our prayers so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.....13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
So if a believer does not know what they had prayed for, how can they give the Father thanks in Jesus's name for answered prayers?
1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing. 18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
But many believers are believing every spirit coming over them as being of God when tongues do not come with interpretation; and why not when some modern Bibles give the impression that the Holy Spirit will make direct intercessions Himself with wordless groans that are like nonsense babblings?
Still, believers need to trust Jesus Christ as their Good Shepherd to see how the KJV is keeping His words for them to discern good & evil in these latter days that modern Bibles are blurring the lines of discernment by.
Anyway, yes, any translation can be used to show how the Books of Enochs are fakes, but as for keeping in align with other scripture, the KJV is the one to rely on and should have the final say in all things.
Sorry. I can debunk every one of your points. John may claim that his source is reliable, but the contradictions with the Synoptics show that it is not.
Matthew indeed ought to have known about the census but doesn't even mention it. Luke, writing later, uses it as a mechanism to wangle Jesus into Bethlehem while Matthew has them living there. I suggest that you read your Bible better.
Astronomical data is pointless related to a star that had to be a mobile light that parked itself outside Jerusalem while the men from the east were inside asking Herod pointless directions. It had to be no more than 100 feet up to be 'over' any particular house. The Astronomical explanation is not only utterly inadequate, it is such a joke that no astronomer proposing it should ever be allowed to drive a telescope again. Thus, whatever that coin is, it is nothing to do with Bethlehem.
Josephus really ought to have written of the massacre of Innocents along with Herod's other misdeeds, but it is possible to argue that he didn't get to hear of it. But that doesn't wash with the other gospels - and this is the whole point of our reference to the disciples chatting with the resurrected Jesus or swapping memories around the camp -fire. They all ought to have known of it, but not only do they not mention any of the nativity, but Luke and Matthew contradict and neither John or Mark have one.
It is Made Up. And we know why. John 7.41- 3.
Josephus, Suetonius, Tacitus, Phlegon...bar Serapion..Pliny. Other than Tacitus and just possibly Suetonius - and they do nothing to validate the Gospel story, but a crucified Jew with some rather unruly followers - which is not a problem for me - none of them do anything to provide valid contemporary (or near) extra - Biblical historical evidence that the Gospel -described Jesus is true (1) .
What more you got?
(1) that required careful wording
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 08-24-2015 at 11:41 AM..
Satan's spirit fills many and they think it is God's.
Yet a reasonable intellectual question would be: "So why does God allow this?" That is, He allows an adversary with God-like supernatural powers to prevail in the same time frame as Him who eternally works to trip up and corrupt God's beloved creating beings? And God, being said to be "all-knowing" (omnisicient) therefore MUST know, for all eternity past (as well as present and future) that this entity you call Satan/Lucifer/Beelzebub/the Prince of Darkness, the Devil, et al whom God Himself created in eternity past would turn out this way and to have all the powers this adversary has at his avail (which God, undeniably, must have endowed him with) and to use such powers to work against God and lead all his (the Devil's) army of innumerable agents (demons, et al) to also work to defeat God's plan and God's beloved creating beings. How do you reconcile such indeniable facts as these? That is, these "facts" are what is dictated, based on the logic and narratives that your own school-of-thought (traditional Christianity) puts forth. Continually putting forth such narratives and logic (or perhaps it should be more aptly termed as "illogic"), you paint yourselves into a logical corner that I don't see any reasonable escape from.
There is another problem with John 3.1-21. It is out of place. It can't be credibly denied that this is related to the temple -cleansing which John ought to have at 12.20 , but hasn't and John shifted it to before his real ministry - perhaps because he didn't want to link the 'Hosanna' procession with the occupation of the Temple (which it effectively was) or thought that it was too violent to be the work of the later near -divine presence. Which is odd when you have Nicodemus talking to Jesus as though he was already known to be a teacher of his own divinity.
Richard, I know 100 times more than you ever will about Christianity.
Here, I will show you that indeed Nicodemus was present.
38 After this Joseph of Arimathea, who was a disciple of Jesus, but in secret, for fear of the Jews, asked Pilate to let him take away the body of Jesus. Pilate gave him leave; so he came and took Jesus’ body away; 39 and with him was Nicodemus, the same who made his first visit to Jesus by night; he brought with him a mixture of myrrh and aloes, of about a hundred pounds’ weight. 40 They took Jesus’ body, then, and wrapped it in winding-cloths with the spices; that is how the Jews prepare a body for burial. 41 In the same quarter where he was crucified there was a garden, with a new tomb in it, one in which no man had ever yet been buried. 42 Here, since the tomb was close at hand, they laid Jesus, because of the Jewish feast on the morrow.
However, Mark does not record this, does he...And even there in John, it says that it was Joseph that took the body of Jesus...You said that it was Nicodemus that took the body of Jesus down from the cross...You obviously don't know 100 times more than me about Christianity...
And someone telling me that they know 100 times more about Christianity than I just proves that they don't...
Interesting, I thought it was the women that brought the spices to the tomb after Shabbat in order to wrap the body, but found the tomb empty...Hmmm, strange...
Luk 24:1 And on the first of the sabbaths, at early dawn, they came to the tomb, bearing the spices they made ready, and certain others with them,
Mar 16:1 And the sabbath having past, Mary the Magdalene, and Mary of James, and Salome, bought spices, that having come, they may anoint him.
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Josephus, Suetonius, Tacitus, Phlegon...bar Serapion..Pliny. Other than Tacitus and just possibly Suetonius - and they do nothing to validate the Gospel story, but a crucified Jew with some rather unruly followers - which is not a problem for me - none of them do anything to provide valid contemporary (or near) extra - Biblical historical evidence that the Gospel -described Jesus is true (1) . 
Reload this Page John 3:16 - Who recorded it?
