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As Christians ( co-sinners) we have long forgiven women for having abortions. Secondly, all a women must do is seek forgiveness and that sin is not even remembered by the REAL judge God. So although the Pope is representative of a kind well intended gesture he is not essential any more than I and that doesn't equate to much eh? Lol. Jesus was pretty much butchered forvall we sinners to allow for our Salvation only asking we believe by His grace through faith . Just call upon His name !! Forgiveness is yet appreciated as a token from the Pope or any leader of any faith.
Yes, they do; it is their faith to practice as they want. Grace works for you and that is wonderful. I can't speak for a Catholic, but as a member of a global church, I know confessions are a great way to assist the repentance process, and sometimes absolutely necessary in serious transgressions. Church membership is both voluntary and revokable. If these women fall into either of those categories, it is nice to know grace is awaiting these women through your missionary efforts.
Last edited by SETI_listener; 09-03-2015 at 11:44 PM..
Mike, forgiveness for the penitent sinner (we all are sinners and hopefully penitent ones trying to reform our lives to conform ourselves to Christ!!!) is indeed from God but (Catholics believe) forgiveness of SERIOUS sin is normally mediated through the Church Jesus founded and gave authority in this very thing starting with the disciples in in John 20:23------"as the Father sent me SO I SEND YOU..(He breathed upon them and said) receive the Holy Spirit: whose sins you forgive are forgiven and whose sins you retain are retained." this in turn can be read in conjunction with Jesus healing the sick and sinful (sickness of body being generally considered a punishment by God for sin at the time) ---in this case the paralytic in Mark 2:10, Luke 5:24, and Matt. 9:6, "....so you may know that the Son of Man has authority to forgive sins." BTW, all Catholics have to confess serious sin, do penance, and receive absolution at least once a year (more often if necessary) and yes, even the pope has to confess on a regular basis to another priest just like regular folks.
Last edited by georgeinbandonoregon; 09-04-2015 at 12:43 AM..
Reason: more info.
May women suffering after an abortion want to talk to someone who can forgive them. Even women who are not Catholics have come to a priest to hear the words, they are forgiven. Many women live constantly with the quilt. That is what confession is for. Plus many women have come into the Church for the confessional and to feel they have been forgiven. The sacrament of confession is a powerful thing.
May women suffering after an abortion want to talk to someone who can forgive them. Even women who are not Catholics have come to a priest to hear the words, they are forgiven. Many women live constantly with the quilt. That is what confession is for. Plus many women have come into the Church for the confessional and to feel they have been forgiven. The sacrament of confession is a powerful thing.
Many women who do NOT "suffer" after making their CHOICE have no need to commiserate with others and participate in that pity-party.
GUILT is a man-made concept and it (guilt) only exists because religion has been able to get a foot hold in society and for too long was legitimized by those in a position of power and status.
Eventually, as Marx wrote, religion became the opiate of the masses and a means of control. As has been discussed here on C-D to ad nauseum, religion has been used to justify genocide, slavery, rape, mutilation, lobotomy, closing food kitchens, closing warming shelters and even discrimination if you can believe that!
Sacraments are self-righteous acts intended to fill a void created when we mortals feel as if the church is dangling us over an open flame (Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God?) and the ONLY way we will ever be able to get out from under the "guilt" is to comply with the church by acknowledging its authority and and accepting the church's influence / wisdom in a public manner--though "confession" is done privately, EVERYONE knows who confessed and has pretty good idea to what they confessed to.
The Pope's willingness to make a public announcement that the church (though there will be radicals who think Francis is way TOO liberal (kind of like Jesus huh?) and will no doubt be passive aggressive and look for ways to subvert the Pope's revelation; it does mean fewer women will be tormented over making the decision to exercise their choice thereby experiencing less trauma and psychological damage imposed by religion.
for the sake of accuracy and completeness in this story---women involved in abortions (and anybody involved in performing an abortion) have ALWAYS had the opportunity for forgiveness in the Church---however, previously absolution in these cases was reserved to the local bishop. the pope's announcement has now EXTENDED the "facilities" for absolution and removal of the "excommunication" associated with having an abortion to individual priests at the parish level. as always, contrition, confession, penance, and of course at least the serious intent of "sinning no more" in the future. are still required but now access to the means for reconciliation is now generally easier n terms of logistics as it were.
Last edited by georgeinbandonoregon; 09-04-2015 at 08:58 AM..
Reason: more info.
for the sake of accuracy and completeness in this story---women involved in abortions have ALWAYS had the opportunity for forgiveness in the Church---however, previously absolution in these cases was reserved to the local bishop. the pope's announcement has now EXTENDED the "facilities" for absolution and removal of the "excommunication" associated with having an abortion to individual priests at the parish level. as always, contrition, confession, penance,etc. are still required but now access to the means for reconciliation is now generally easier n terms of logistics as it were.
Women do not have to apologize, or ask forgiveness for their reproductive health decisions. The idea is silly.
Women do not have to apologize, or ask forgiveness for their reproductive health decisions. The idea is silly.
for the sake of completeness, the church has never regarded abortion as a "woman's sin" but one involving those of any gender who performed it and those who may have persuaded and facilitated the woman to have that abortion. the woman may have been scared, desperate, ignorant of the full implications of what the church believes is the ending of an innocent human life (in this case an unborn person), even coerced in some manner, shape, or form. all these influences social, psychological,physical etc. can be real MITIGATING circumstances in "culpability" and thus degree of "guilt" (if any) in what happened.
those who in good faith REJECT the Church' s definition of abortion (as essentially a sin against life/murder) must and will do as their conscience and judgment bids them to do---IT'S THEIR RIGHT and ultimately that's between them and God. OTOH, those who ultimately ACCEPT the Church's definition of abortion as a sin against life and God must then at least consider that they were involved in a very serious sin and ultimately seek reconciliation with God and the church through the means provided---IT'S THEIR RIGHT to follow their conscience in this, also.
Last edited by georgeinbandonoregon; 09-04-2015 at 09:42 AM..
Jesus himself gave the power of determining and forgiving sin to His one and only Apostolic Church.
"Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven"
So why are men claiming that privilege of forgiveness? It seems men wish women to jump through hoops for their reproductive health care decisions. They seem to forget they equally responsible.
I do not see anyone demanding men apologize or ask forgiveness for their role. It shows arrogance and hubris.
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