Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Is it bad and selfish for me to believe that most lukewarm Christians will eventually repent and turn their lives over to God through Jesus Christ during the final moments of their life? I do believe that many people do grow more and more spiritually and Christ like during the final months or years of their lives.
So it sounds to me like you believe Christians who don't believe just like you are going to hell. <---That's the problem with religious fundamentalism/literalism/extremism. I'm right, and everyone else on earth must believe as I do or burn in hell for eternity.
You continue to make this an issue of deeds rather than an issue of relationship. You will continue mischaracterizing Christianity with this train of thought.
Nothing I've said is inaccurate. It's fine to say salvation is all about a relationship with Jesus. That's a pretty grey area. Ted Bundy had a great...terrific....FABULOUS relationship with Jesus.....10 minutes before they pumped him full of potassium chloride, that is. Before that? Ehhhh....not so good.
But Jesus said, "It is not the hearers of the Law but the DOERS of the Law who will be justified in the sight of God." So when I say Jesus made faith plus deeds a formula for salvation and Paul came along and turned this on its head and said faith alone produces salvation I have not spoken any untruths or colored the truth. Therefore I stand blameless in the sight of men. It was Paul who corrupted Jesus' gospel and wrote his own gospel.
Is it bad and selfish for me to believe that most lukewarm Christians will eventually repent and turn their lives over to God through Jesus Christ during the final moments of their life? I do believe that many people do grow more and more spiritually and Christ like during the final months or years of their lives.
Jesus said He will deal with them, so IMO, it's a big mistake to start and try to judge a person's relationship with Jesus based on your own style of understanding. There WILL come a time when Jesus will separate the goats from the sheep as only He can. Until then we can really not judge if a person is lukewarm or just unemotional. For now, all we can know for sure is if someone does what Paul instructs them to do in Rom 10:9-11, they are saved. Their walk is another matter, until their apostasy becomes evident.
Nothing I've said is inaccurate. It's fine to say salvation is all about a relationship with Jesus. That's a pretty grey area. Ted Bundy had a great...terrific....FABULOUS relationship with Jesus.....10 minutes before they pumped him full of potassium chloride, that is. Before that? Ehhhh....not so good.
But Jesus said, "It is not the hearers of the Law but the DOERS of the Law who will be justified in the sight of God." So when I say Jesus made faith plus deeds a formula for salvation and Paul came along and turned this on its head and said faith alone produces salvation I have not spoken any untruths or colored the truth. Therefore I stand blameless in the sight of men. It was Paul who corrupted Jesus' gospel and wrote his own gospel.
You take what Paul said out of context
James shared exactly what is what with faith and works. He said--Faith without works is dead.--- he was saying works build up a strong alive faith--without the works ones faith is dead( worthless)--it is still faith that gets one saved. but it take works to build a real living faith up. It as well takes other things to get one into Gods kingdom as well. One must live now to do the Fathers will to enter his kingdom( be saved)Matt 7:21)--Jesus as well taught one must know the Father( one who sent Jesus-John 5:30) as the only true God, and know Jesus to get eternal life( be saved)
So there are many requirements on the mortals part to be able to enter Gods kingdom.
Many lukewarmers will repent in Tribulation true but many will die ( of age) perhaps before that eye opening stimuli. Since we are only to judge to a minor degree based on truth not adhered to we who may not be lukewarmers see lukewarmers saved never-the - less and can only speculate their rewards will be minimal due to a lousy record of stewardship? I have bouts of lukewarm myself so this subject is that ol' log in my eye while I see a splinter the those bad christian " do nothings" lol
Nothing I've said is inaccurate. It's fine to say salvation is all about a relationship with Jesus. That's a pretty grey area. Ted Bundy had a great...terrific....FABULOUS relationship with Jesus.....10 minutes before they pumped him full of potassium chloride, that is. Before that? Ehhhh....not so good.
But Jesus said, "It is not the hearers of the Law but the DOERS of the Law who will be justified in the sight of God." So when I say Jesus made faith plus deeds a formula for salvation and Paul came along and turned this on its head and said faith alone produces salvation I have not spoken any untruths or colored the truth. Therefore I stand blameless in the sight of men. It was Paul who corrupted Jesus' gospel and wrote his own gospel.
Actually, it was Paul who said what you are quoting out of context.
Romans 2:13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
In this section of Romans Paul was talking about the impartiality of God with respect to judgment. Both the Jews and the Gentiles will be judged, but the Jews will be judged by the Law which was given only to the Jews. The Gentiles, since they were not given the Law will not be judged on the basis of the Law. The Law of Moses will not be used as the standard of judgment against the Gentiles.
The Jews were boasting in, and relying on the Law (Rom. 2:17, 23). Yet, the purpose of the Law was to demonstrate that no man can keep the Law perfectly. The Law therefore was a tutor or guardian to the Jews until Christ came.
Gal 3:24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.
Paul's point in the first six chapters of Romans was to show that no one is justified by the Law, but only through faith in Christ Jesus, and that eternal life is a gift.
And that eternal life is a free gift is what Jesus told the Samaritan woman (John 4:10,14).
John 4:10 Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." . . . 14] but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life."
This is in keeping with what John recorded in Revelation 22:17. The Revelation which was given to him by Jesus.
Rev. 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." And let the one who hears say, "Come." And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.
Eternal life is given without cost. It is free and is received or taken possession of simply by trusting in Jesus who made salvation possible by means of His redemptive work on the cross.
And so, on the occasion spoken of in John 6:27-29, when the crowd asked Jesus what the works of God were that they might do them in order that they might have eternal life, Jesus corrected them by stating that there was only one thing, which He called a work (and this was simply speaking to them in terms that they would understand). And that one work was simply to believe on Him.
John 6:27 Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal." 28] Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?" 29] Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."
Commenting on John 6:28-29 Edwin A. Blum writes,
6:28. The people recognized that Jesus was saying God had a requirement for them. They would do God's requirement if He would inform them what it was. They believed that they could please God and thus obtain eternal life by doing good works (cf. Rom. 10:2-4). 6:29. Jesus' response to their question was a flat contradiction of their thinking. They could not please God by doing good works. There is only one work of God, that is, one thing God requires. They need to put their trust in the One the Father has sent. Because of their sin people cannot please God by doing good works for salvation (Eph. 2:8-9; Titus 3:5). God demands that people recognize their inability to save themselves and receive His gift (Rom. 6:23).
[The Bible Knowledge Commentary, New Testament, An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty, p. 295]
Now while good works are rewardable at the judgment seat of Christ (1 Cor. 3:12-15) that is a separate issue from eternal life. Eternal rewards are earned, but eternal life is a free gift. You do not work for a gift.
At the council at Jerusalem (Acts 15) the issue of whether the Gentile believers should be circumcised was addressed. The Judaizers were claiming that you had to be circumcised according to the custom of Moses in order to be saved (Acts 15:1; Gal. 2). Peter refuted this. After referring back to when he had given the gospel to Cornelius (Acts 15:7 with reference to Acts chapter 10), Peter stated that we believe that we are saved by grace (Acts 15:11). Some years earlier Peter had been sent by God to give the gospel to Cornelius and his household. Even before he finished speaking to them the Holy Spirit came upon all who were listening to the message (Acts 10:44). They simply believed the message and were eternally saved as a result.
Paul then, did not contradict Jesus or the other apostles. Eternal salvation is a gift which is freely offered, freely given, and received simply by believing on Christ Jesus; by trusting in Him alone for eternal life.
It's all a crock! Live life and do the right thing. You don't need a book to follow. It doesn't cost you anything to give people the benefit of the doubt.
Actually, it was Paul who said what you are quoting out of context.
Romans 2:13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
In this section of Romans Paul was talking about the impartiality of God with respect to judgment. Both the Jews and the Gentiles will be judged, but the Jews will be judged by the Law which was given only to the Jews. The Gentiles, since they were not given the Law will not be judged on the basis of the Law. The Law of Moses will not be used as the standard of judgment against the Gentiles.
The Jews were boasting in, and relying on the Law (Rom. 2:17, 23). Yet, the purpose of the Law was to demonstrate that no man can keep the Law perfectly. The Law therefore was a tutor or guardian to the Jews until Christ came.
Gal 3:24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.
Paul's point in the first six chapters of Romans was to show that no one is justified by the Law, but only through faith in Christ Jesus, and that eternal life is a gift.
And that eternal life is a free gift is what Jesus told the Samaritan woman (John 4:10,14).
John 4:10 Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." . . . 14] but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life."
This is in keeping with what John recorded in Revelation 22:17. The Revelation which was given to him by Jesus.
Rev. 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." And let the one who hears say, "Come." And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.
Eternal life is given without cost. It is free and is received or taken possession of simply by trusting in Jesus who made salvation possible by means of His redemptive work on the cross.
And so, on the occasion spoken of in John 6:27-29, when the crowd asked Jesus what the works of God were that they might do them in order that they might have eternal life, Jesus corrected them by stating that there was only one thing, which He called a work (and this was simply speaking to them in terms that they would understand). And that one work was simply to believe on Him.
John 6:27 Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal." 28] Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?" 29] Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."
Commenting on John 6:28-29 Edwin A. Blum writes,
6:28. The people recognized that Jesus was saying God had a requirement for them. They would do God's requirement if He would inform them what it was. They believed that they could please God and thus obtain eternal life by doing good works (cf. Rom. 10:2-4). 6:29. Jesus' response to their question was a flat contradiction of their thinking. They could not please God by doing good works. There is only one work of God, that is, one thing God requires. They need to put their trust in the One the Father has sent. Because of their sin people cannot please God by doing good works for salvation (Eph. 2:8-9; Titus 3:5). God demands that people recognize their inability to save themselves and receive His gift (Rom. 6:23).
[The Bible Knowledge Commentary, New Testament, An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty, p. 295]
Now while good works are rewardable at the judgment seat of Christ (1 Cor. 3:12-15) that is a separate issue from eternal life. Eternal rewards are earned, but eternal life is a free gift. You do not work for a gift.
At the council at Jerusalem (Acts 15) the issue of whether the Gentile believers should be circumcised was addressed. The Judaizers were claiming that you had to be circumcised according to the custom of Moses in order to be saved (Acts 15:1; Gal. 2). Peter refuted this. After referring back to when he had given the gospel to Cornelius (Acts 15:7 with reference to Acts chapter 10), Peter stated that we believe that we are saved by grace (Acts 15:11). Some years earlier Peter had been sent by God to give the gospel to Cornelius and his household. Even before he finished speaking to them the Holy Spirit came upon all who were listening to the message (Acts 10:44). They simply believed the message and were eternally saved as a result.
Paul then, did not contradict Jesus or the other apostles. Eternal salvation is a gift which is freely offered, freely given, and received simply by believing on Christ Jesus; by trusting in Him alone for eternal life.
Oh, son of a gun; you got me on that, Mike. Hmmm.....
Is it bad and selfish for me to believe that most lukewarm Christians will eventually repent and turn their lives over to God through Jesus Christ during the final moments of their life? I do believe that many people do grow more and more spiritually and Christ like during the final months or years of their lives.
Well, how are you doing? Are you feeding the hungry? Visiting an elderly, lonely neighbor? Mentoring a young boy without a dad? Volunteering to tutor kids in the inner city? Making sure your sick neighbor has a pot of chicken soup?
Or are you a lukewarm Christian?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Hmmm.....
