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Sadly, it depends on whose version of history one looks at. There are no unbiased reports of it known to exist.
About all we know of it is from the Qur'an and Ahadith.
Are there any specific instances you believe were not acts of self defense?
Battle of the trench in the Siege of Medina. ...anyone up for beheading today? Anyone? Bueler?
Mohammad is just not a credible figure. I don't doubt he got, and has a following, but he was clearly functioning out of the Spirit of rejection, suffered long before where the half brother Jews and Arabs separated, due to Abraham rejecting Hagar and Ishmael. Rejected, wounded people, attract and empathize with other rejected, wounded people - simples. The only practical spiritual turn around in the circumstance of perceived rejection is to come back to Abba who accepts everyone because He is their true Dad.
Islam is obviously a huge barrier to the spread of Christianity. In some countries, apostasy from Islam is actually a capital offense.
If Christianity is the One True Path to Salvation, then why did God allow a religion like Islam to come onto the scene and thrive? Preventing the founding of a false religion like Islam should have been a priority.
I'm late on this thread but I thought I would respond briefly to the OP. Islam, atheism, and any other non-Christian belief is just a natural by product of creating a world that is based on free will...a deeper question might be why would God be so particular about a certain belief when he knew people would be born into all these other beliefs all throughout history?...thats a matter of debate because not every Christian here believes death is the last chance to choose Jesus and some believe they will be judged by what they do know.
Ultra-fundamentalists squirm on these questions because they really don't have a good logical and/or moral answer without saying something along the lines of "God only loves those who love him" which means he doesn't really "so love the world" and in fact he believes its Just for therest of the world to burn in agony for eternity eventhough he is suppose to be love incarnate. These ideas are contradictory with morality, logic, commonsense, and the even the bible in so many ways is hard to know where to start here but we have countless other threads that talk about why
Moderate Islam is no worse than moderate Christianity. It is the evil extremists of both faiths who do the damage.
No. Cliches are not reality in the modern world. Mother Theresa was a very committed Christian who took her faith seriously, to the letter. Mark and Huldah Buntain. Billy Graham. Charles Stanley.
Osama Bin Laden. Ayatollah Homeini and the Saudi family are committed Muslims who take their faith seriously, to the letter.
The modern West represents Christianity at it's most moderate and liberal.
The Middle East represents Islam as moderately as it can be represented.
And the Catholic Church of the middle Ages? It was about on par with Islam throughout the ages. Both in waging war and in regulating society.
I'm late on this thread but I thought I would respond briefly to the OP. Islam, atheism, and any other non-Christian belief is just a natural by product of creating a world that is based on free will...a deeper question might be why would God be so particular about a certain belief when he knew people would be born into all these other beliefs all throughout history?...thats a matter of debate because not every Christian here believes death is the last chance to choose Jesus and some believe they will be judged by what they do know.
Ultra-fundamentalists squirm on these questions because they really don't have a good logical and/or moral answer without saying something along the lines of "God only loves those who love him" which means he doesn't really "so love the world" and in fact he believes its Just for therest of the world to burn in agony for eternity eventhough he is suppose to be love incarnate. These ideas are contradictory with morality, logic, commonsense, and the even the bible in so many ways is hard to know where to start here but we have countless other threads that talk about why
I haven't found any writings about the "Battle of the Trench" except in Islamic sites and in the Ahadith and the Qur'an and the anti-Islamic sites. Which seem to have taken the Islamic account and twisted it.
No. Cliches are not reality in the modern world. Mother Theresa was a very committed Christian who took her faith seriously, to the letter. Mark and Huldah Buntain. Billy Graham. Charles Stanley.
Osama Bin Laden. Ayatollah Homeini and the Saudi family are committed Muslims who take their faith seriously, to the letter.
The modern West represents Christianity at it's most moderate and liberal.
The Middle East represents Islam as moderately as it can be represented.
And the Catholic Church of the middle Ages? It was about on par with Islam throughout the ages. Both in waging war and in regulating society.
The Mideast represents less than 20% of the world's Muslims. The vast majority of Muslims are Asiatic and the majority of Asiatic Muslims seem to be quite peaceful. Of course people seem to place Western Papua as an Invasion by Indonesia, but that is more like the US civil war Western Papua is part of Indonesia and like the Southern US states in 1860 is trying to secede from the Union.
From the Muslim view Western Papua has come under the influence of Western Missionaries that are attempting to turn Western Papua into a Christian Nation. Sort of similar to the fears of the Europeans over Muslim immigrants, but in the opposite direction.
Christianity was first Introduced into Western Papua in 1855 and has now grown to be over 50% Christian. Which is engaged in war to secede from Indonesia.
Except for this Civil war Indonesia is quite peaceful and very moderate except for the ACEH Province which is trying to be 100% Muslim also wants to secede from Indonesia and become a 100% Muslim nation but are not trying to do so by force. Yes, Aceh is under Sharia, by majority vote.
The original question above is rather simple..GOD gave up demanding allowed "Free will" with ability to gain forgiveness... The only difference between all religions is the belief in GOD..don't what they call HIM..but in truth they all agree their is some sort of Deity..which is the total focus....Once Jesus came into the world..some became believers that he was the SON of GOD...Other religions realized he was a Prophet..but wouldn't designate Jesus as the Son of God...
Fast foreward...ALL religions Islam/Christian/Buddism/Hindu, ALL believe in something greater than themselves..spiritually speaking or as some sort of guidance.....But due to God's allowing this free will...EXTREME Ideology has spawned terrorism ( rule by fear/punishment/absolute adorations etc..preaching absolute extremism .....
But hey..I've heard similar Christian Extremism abound in the Nation of Freedom..So why question it?? If Extreme/Absolute ..disregarding the rest of the scriptures BTW!! has somehow become the norm for Hate-filled types..mentally ill types listen to the hate/rhetoric speech and get green light to act out..and everyone wonders why the WORLD is the way it is???
Pandora's box got opened..and after 14 years..everything has evolved into chaos.. Right/ wrong clash..and the evolution of communication's..Event's go viral..world watches/listens/takes sides..It's like trying to herd CATS!!
What God does is ALLOW you to make decisions ( good or Bad) but hopes you learn from such decisions...then again..Bad type human decide to do bad things..and gains or profits..will repeat it over and over again until caught.. Unfortunately, Rule's are often there..but those with $$$$/Legal Support/Influence, often skate ..and LOL and thumb nose at laws..fight to repeal them..or at the very least PAY for those "Loopholes" that make convictions very difficult!!
Anyway..It's not God's problem..It's HUMANITY's PROBLEM..It's become almost like the bible story of Sodom and Gomorrah
I haven't found any writings about the "Battle of the Trench" except in Islamic sites and in the Ahadith and the Qur'an and the anti-Islamic sites. Which seem to have taken the Islamic account and twisted it.
Ok, ok, it's been twisted.
It's still fairly simple though: if you go looking for a fight, you will find one. The simili of which is, if you decide you have a new faith you need to tell people about, you go out proclaiming and proselytising. The problem comes when you get a reaction that isn't akin to accepting your belief system. What do you do?; just preach to those who accept it, and leave those who don't to go about their business; or for those who attack you, either accept martyrdom because you've obviously stepped over a line, or, pick up a sword and strike them back because you have a right to self defence.?
I just don't get how Islam is a religion of peace - it's root is rejection, aggression and retaliation. The stupid part is that the world has shown many times you cannot conquer the masses by force - people will rise up to stop you, and that is what is happening with the spirit behind Islam. The spirit of aggression, control, oppression and domination has shown its hand, and the world en masse are saying "not likely, old son!" The road to reform has been and needs to be taken by Muslims - I think it can happen, and possibly is happening, but I'm still suspect because of the spirit behind Islam. You cannot trust that spirit because it is first and foremost a liar. Building trust when it is diminished as much as it is is a very long road.
It's still fairly simple though: if you go looking for a fight, you will find one. The simili of which is, if you decide you have a new faith you need to tell people about, you go out proclaiming and proselytising. The problem comes when you get a reaction that isn't akin to accepting your belief system. What do you do?; just preach to those who accept it, and leave those who don't to go about their business; or for those who attack you, either accept martyrdom because you've obviously stepped over a line, or, pick up a sword and strike them back because you have a right to self defence.?
I just don't get how Islam is a religion of peace - it's root is rejection, aggression and retaliation. The stupid part is that the world has shown many times you cannot conquer the masses by force - people will rise up to stop you, and that is what is happening with the spirit behind Islam. The spirit of aggression, control, oppression and domination has shown its hand, and the world en masse are saying "not likely, old son!" The road to reform has been and needs to be taken by Muslims - I think it can happen, and possibly is happening, but I'm still suspect because of the spirit behind Islam. You cannot trust that spirit because it is first and foremost a liar. Building trust when it is diminished as much as it is is a very long road.
Merry Christmas.
Happy Days to you also.
Muslims and non-Muslims have very opposite concepts of what Islam is.
Reading the Ahadith and Qur'an every Battle the early Muslims in Arabia were involved with were defensive and not acts of aggression.
The iidea that Islam was spread by the sword is not supported historically. While there have been take over of nations by Muslims, typically the population remained non-Muslims. India for example was never over 15% Muslim. The largest expansion of Islam was Indonesia in the 1500s. There was no take over by Muslims, yet very shortly nearly 100% of the population of Indonesia accepted Islam making it the largest Islamic Nation in the world.
Muslims and non-Muslims have very opposite concepts of what Islam is.
Reading the Ahadith and Qur'an every Battle the early Muslims in Arabia were involved with were defensive and not acts of aggression.
The iidea that Islam was spread by the sword is not supported historically. While there have been take over of nations by Muslims, typically the population remained non-Muslims. India for example was never over 15% Muslim. The largest expansion of Islam was Indonesia in the 1500s. There was no take over by Muslims, yet very shortly nearly 100% of the population of Indonesia accepted Islam making it the largest Islamic Nation in the world.
If the Spirit behind Islam is first and foremost a liar, one would expect the Ahadith and Quran to paint a rather rosy picture of Islam's expansion.
What exactly was Mohammad up to that caused his band of Muslims to have to defend themselves against attack?
I can't imagine others attacking him / them for absolutely no reason. (*) ...and this is why Islam falls at the first hurdle in terms of propagating an idea of how to relate to God and fellow man by the means in which it was propagated. ....(*) having said this, the Islamic sites as you refer, that give the 'accurate' history, do seem to imply that the people outside of Islam in its infancy were deranged savages, devoid of common sense and societal sensibilities - my God, no wonder people couldn't resist Mohammad's charm offensive. Oh yes, it was all voluntary surrender and conversion, that's right.
Just your use of the words 'take over' 2 times sums it up. Makes me shudder.
Muslims and non-Muslims have very opposite concepts of what Islam is.
Reading the Ahadith and Qur'an every Battle the early Muslims in Arabia were involved with were defensive and not acts of aggression.
The iidea that Islam was spread by the sword is not supported historically. While there have been take over of nations by Muslims, typically the population remained non-Muslims. India for example was never over 15% Muslim. The largest expansion of Islam was Indonesia in the 1500s. There was no take over by Muslims, yet very shortly nearly 100% of the population of Indonesia accepted Islam making it the largest Islamic Nation in the world.
Not only is there the seed of Abraham, Abraham had two brothers and their seeds combined into one man,'' Laban.''
Laban had two daughters, '' Rachel and Leah.''
These two daughters give us the 12 tribes of Israel, so that the 12 tribes of Israel are the descendants of 3 brothers,'' Abraham, Nahor, Haran.''
I always see people speak about the being the descendants of Abraham, but God has a way of mixing them all anyway. In Symbolism, I see a man with 12 ribs and I see half a man and then to think of the 12 Princes of Ishmael, and to see how the descendants of Ishmael and Esau were continually mixed and even kept in the land of Joseph, it's a curious thing because when the king of Assyria took ten tribes out of Israel and replaced them with sons of Ishmael and Esau, one has to wonder.
It's my opinion that Islam was around way before Mohammed and Mohammed came keeping Jewish feast to appeal to the Jews in the beginning. I look at the religion of those Samaritans who lived in the houses of the ten tribes for 700 years before Jesus and how they made a continuous claim to be of Israel saying,'' Our father Jacob built this well.''
I think of that woman at the well and how she said,'' We also wait upon a Messiah.''
I see the Samaritans still in Shechem, still sacrificing on Passover, and I can't help but think that Islam comes from right there mostly.
Maybe I am wrong, what do you think Woodrow?
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