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Thanks for sharing your personal opinion on matter. Unfortunately your view is legalistic, it is the view of the Pharisee who seeked to earn Gods favor by their own works.
Again, did the thief on the cross earn God's favor by "mastering" something of his own? No, he did not.
Love God, and everything else follows. It gives birth to natural desire to love your neighbor.
Feel free to disagree.
Disagree...mainly because the most outspoken Christians in authority seem to fail.....Kim Davis as just one example...
I agree with what is being suggested thru the teachings tho..Love thy neighbour as thy self..mean's in simplified 21st Century terminology > TOLERANCE of other's..try to learn and understand their POV..or at the very least come to terms...to sometimes agree to disagree...and live in PEACE!!
Yet even as I type..Tolerance is pretty well gone..Even Politicians preach it from their bully pulpits and folks lap it up like it's the "2nd Coming"....
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Originally Posted by TroutDude
I do.
(Quelle surprise!)
Warden is correct.
You - as nearly always so far as I have seen - continue to be in error and require reproving and correcting.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
No, Finn. It is what you THINK putting God first means that is the problem. You THINK that whatever is in the Bible (without testing its Spirit) is what you have to follow to love God even if it discriminates against, or harms or hurts or disadvantages others who do not see things the way that you do. But there is NO TIME when God wants you to discriminate against, or harm, or hurt or otherwise disadvantage ANYONE ELSE in His name!!!! THAT is why that kind of blind following of words "written in ink" is NOT putting God first. It is an epic fail!!!
No, the Bible does not disagree with me. Like I have repeated here several times, both commandments are important. You seem to think that if you love God, then that somehow means you can't love your neighbor. I said if you love God, everything else follows. The two go hand in hand.
The bible does not agree with you. If you love your fellow man that proves you love God and every else follows, to believe otherwise you are deceiving yourself and mollycodlling your doctrines that stroke your ego.
Thanks for sharing your personal opinion on matter. Unfortunately your view is legalistic, it is the view of the Pharisee who seeked to earn Gods favor by their own works.
Again, did the thief on the cross earn God's favor by "mastering" something of his own? No, he did not.
Love God, and everything else follows. It gives birth to natural desire to love your neighbor.
Feel free to disagree.
The thief on the cross didn't need or even want an idol. He only needed a Savior.
Jesus was quite clear that works would boil over out of a believer's life. It's the "faith only" crowd that are going to be shouting, "When did we not see you hungry and thirsty or naked and imprisoned?" Jesus never said a word in that parable about "faith." He simply said those with works would not be asked to depart from God's presence.
Jesus Himself NEVER EVER says that faith, and faith alone is salvation. That is left to the fundamentalissts' god, Paul of Tarsus. You apparently hold to the sixteenth century development of sola fide. According to Jesus works do matter(Matthew 25:31-46). The people rewarded and punished are done so by their actions. And our thoughts (Matthew 15:18-20) and words (James 3:6-12) are accountable as well. These verses are just as much part of the Bible as Romans 10:8-13 and John 3:3-5.
Some will appeal to Romans 4:3 about Abraham being accounted as a man of "faith," not works as he was called faithful prior to circumcision, but look at what he did--a close examination of Abraham's life revealed a man of God who did something. In Genesis 12-14 he makes two geographical moves, builds an altar and calls on the Lord, divides land with Lot to end quarrels, pays tithes, and refuses goods from the King of Sodom to rely instead on God's providence. He did all these works as an old man. It was certainly a struggle. After all these actions of faith, then he's "declared righteous" (Genesis 15:6). Did these works play a role in his justification? According to the Bible, yes.
Legalism is valuing the Bible over people--which is what you consistently defend. You like to play the "I am misunderstood" card, but virtually every poster on these threads sees your heart in your words--it isn't for people--it's for the Bible.
For me the Bible is only of value when it puts people first. The authors of it often put their own ideas forward. In fact, about the only unbiased views we get are in the synoptic gospels which limit themselves to oral traditions about what Jesus said and did--not bothering with the philosophical arguments of a zealot like Paul.
Many fundamentalists like to turn faith into a "work," but that is not sound spiritually or biblically. Faith in faith will surely not provide salvation. Many evil acts have been committed because some people believed faith in faith was enough. My prime example is George Sodini. Sodini, mass murderer and professed Christian Eternal Securist wrote; “Maybe soon, I will see God and Jesus. At least that is what I was told. Eternal life does NOT depend on works. If it did, we will all be in hell. Christ paid for EVERY sin, so how can I or you be judged BY GOD for a sin when the penalty was ALREADY paid. People judge but that does not matter. I was reading the Bible and The Integrity of God beginning yesterday, because soon I will see them.”
Sodini killed three women at a Pittsburgh health club before committing suicide.
No, faith is not enough--but neither are works. What one must have is works arising out of faith. Without such evidence there is no real faith.
Study a little harder. Scripture is neither the panacea for the world's problems nor something to be discarded. It is a WORK of faith, by men who were testifying about their own faith. In that respect it can be viewed both as inspired AND self-centered, for the writers certainly brought some of their less admirable characteristics to their writings.
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Maintain good conduct among the Gentiles, so that if they speak of you as evildoers, they may observe your good works and glorify God on the day of visitation.
1 Peter 2:12
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I know your works, your labor, and your endurance...
Rev. 2:2
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Just so, your light must shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your heavenly Father.
Jesus--Matt 5:12
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For the Son of Man will come with his angels in his Father's glory, and then he will repay everyone according to his conduct.
Jesus--Matt 16:27
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Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
James 2:20-22
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The one who plants and the one who waters are equal, and each will receive wages in proportion to his labor.
1 Cor. 3:8
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And God is able to bless you abundantly, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work.
2 Cor. 9:9
Is there a lack of good works in your life? Don't count on faith to be the overcomer. For if God gives faith He also instills a sense of purpose to serve Him by loving and caring for others even as did His Son.
Works do not save us, but are required nevertheless as evidence of our faith. The issue is not "works or faith" but "works and faith," since "faith without works is dead."
If one hasn't the works, then it's simply lying to oneself that loving God is "sufficient." That's not even proof of belief. THE WORKS ARE PROOF OF BELIEF. Otherwise why did all those otherwise "faithful" people in Jesus' parable, the ones who saw themselves as being "good" end up
And who is the neighbor who keeps Christ's commands and is a DOER of that second greatest commandment--why none other than an infidel by Jewish standards--a Samaritan who used a different Bible from the Jewish OT, who was routinely avoided and ignored by the religious elite, but who didn't think so much of himself, his property, or his inconvenience that he would avoid an injured man on the side of the road.
Who were the ones Jesus castigated by default---both were church (synagogue) attending, bible quoting, tithing respectable members of their communities. They had lots of faith--but it didn't translate into action. They were, as are most "faith only" people, talkers about God, while never breaking a sweat to DO anything that Jesus praised in the Samaritan. Even the lawyer to whom He was talking could see the point. Even if you have a poor education, you ought to be a good deal smarter than the lawyer with whom Jesus discussed the finer points of the Greatest Commandment.
Being kindly to your most ghastly neighbor is the only way your light can shine and be noticed by others (the light is noticed--not you). It's the only way God has a physical presence among men. That's why He so often chose them to be His vehicle for transmitting knowledge--Jesus being the greatest example--but others as well. The Pharisees are an example of people who loved God, but not their fellow man so often.
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Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?"
Acts 15:10-11
Requiring one to be a "bible believer" is just such a burden. At least the way you appear to interpret it.
Last edited by Wardendresden; 01-03-2016 at 07:16 PM..
Disagree...mainly because the most outspoken Christians in authority seem to fail.....Kim Davis as just one example...
You are welcome to disagree that loving God is first priority. Davis has absolutely nothing to do with it.
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I agree with what is being suggested thru the teachings tho..Love thy neighbour as thy self..mean's in simplified 21st Century terminology > TOLERANCE of other's..try to learn and understand their POV..or at the very least come to terms...to sometimes agree to disagree...and live in PEACE!!
Loving your neighbor goes hand-in-hand with the first great commandment. I am not sure why so many insist it has to be one or the other, when Jesus made it quite clear it's both.
If your idea of loving your neighbor means tolerating everything, then so be it. That is your view of it, but often tolerating everything can end up being the worst thing you can do to your neighbor. HOW you love your neighbor is a whole other topic, and there are many opinions about it.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 01-03-2016 at 07:44 PM..
The thief on the cross didn't need or even want an idol. He only needed a Savior.
Who said he needed an idol.
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Jesus was quite clear that works would boil over out of a believer's life. It's the "faith only" crowd that are going to be shouting, "When did we not see you hungry and thirsty or naked and imprisoned?" Jesus never said a word in that parable about "faith." He simply said those with works would not be asked to depart from God's presence.
Faith only? Who did you get that idea? I keep repeating that loving God gives birth to everything else like loving your neighbor.
The two go hand in hand. It is not one or the other, it is both.
How many times have I repeated this?
You told me on the other thread that you (and mystic, nate etc) do not understand anything I say, and I think that problem is becoming painfully obvious on this thread.
Why do you think that loving God first would somehow mean you cannot love your neighbor?
Love God, and the desire to love your neighbor follows.
But then again, I already said so.......
It seems you are trying to play God out of the equation
No, Finn. It is what you THINK putting God first means that is the problem. You THINK that whatever is in the Bible (without testing its Spirit) is what you have to follow to love God even if it discriminates against, or harms or hurts or disadvantages others who do not see things the way that you do. But there is NO TIME when God wants you to discriminate against, or harm, or hurt or otherwise disadvantage ANYONE ELSE in His name!!!! THAT is why that kind of blind following of words "written in ink" is NOT putting God first. It is an epic fail!!!
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Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
LOL
Here we go again. Mystic trying to declare what other posters believe
Tomorrow he will revert back to insisting he has no idea what I believe
I am not the topic. Why do you always make everything about other posters, and why do you always misrepresent their views?
Stop playing this silly game of hide and seek with your views, Finn. Either express them clearly or shut up. Putting God first does NOT mean believing and implementing whatever nonsense is written in the Bible whether or not it harms, hurts, discriminates against or otherwise disadvantages someone else. You have defended such hurtful things in other posts in the name of God and against sin, so do you disavow this now???
Stop playing this silly game of hide and seek with your views, Finn. Either express them clearly or shut up. Putting God first does NOT mean believing and implementing whatever nonsense is written in the Bible whether or not it harms, hurts, discriminates against or otherwise disadvantages someone else. You have defended such hurtful things in other posts in the name of God and against sin, so do you disavow this now???
When you naturally love someone or something, everything else follows.
And you do not have to force it by reading your Bible, or going to Church.
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Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
No one said anything about bible and church. The only thing which was mentioned was the 1st great commandment of Jesus Christ.
‘“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment.
2nd commandment is to love your neighbor. He mentioned both, because both are important, and he mentioned them in that order, because that is how he prioritized them. Love for God brings the natural desire to love your neighbor.
I see an effort here to play God out of the picture, which is consistent with other comments made by the same posters.
I agree, both are an important aspect of Christianity, and one should never negate the other.
However, the first is exhibited or manifested through that of the second; loving your neighbor.
Stop playing this silly game of hide and seek with your views, Finn. Either express them clearly or shut up. Putting God first does NOT mean believing and implementing whatever nonsense is written in the Bible whether or not it harms, hurts, discriminates against or otherwise disadvantages someone else. You have defended such hurtful things in other posts in the name of God and against sin, so do you disavow this now???
^^^^^^ This ^^^^ couldn't rep you again..but I agree with you..selective bible quotes..and self interpretations do bely the actual teachings...It's so disheartening to read/listen to supposed Christian's preaching things almost everyday..that belies the actual message.. ..and yet having governing folks trying to make law to not only go against Constitution Law..but exposes their actual hatred of "Their Neighbours"...I can only SMH with such rhetoric coming from candidates and actual elected officials who KEEP on blaming victim's of discrimination!! Disgusting..not Christian and certainly not of what are "American Values"....
Someone suggested many times..that Lady Liberty is WEEPING and I so agree with what I have been watching, hearing and reading these past years
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