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The issue which I have addressed is simply that the angel that we know as Satan had originally been created morally good and upright, and only later made a volitional choice to rebel against God.
But, there is nothing in the Scriptures that allude to this...So where do you get it from?...
But, there is nothing in the Scriptures that allude to this...So where do you get it from?...
From this:
Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering: the sardius, topaz, diamond, turquoise, onyx, and beryl, the sapphire, ruby, and emerald, and gold; the works of thy tambourines, and of thy pipes were prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Along with this, and a creative mind or imagination.
You were anointed as a guardian cherub.
You were on the holy mount of God.
You walked among the fiery stones.
The issue which I have addressed is simply that the angel that we know as Satan had originally been created morally good and upright, and only later made a volitional choice to rebel against God. As I already stated, God knew that Satan would rebel, and allowed it to happen. Otherwise there would have been no true volition on the part of Satan. God gave His moral creatures volition and holds them responsible for their volitional choices. The responsibility for Satan's fall therefore rests with Satan, not with God. Satan became evil by his own choice. He was not created evil.
God knew everything that would occur in both angelic and human history before He created either race. He proceeded with His plan of creation anyway, for His own purpose, and for His own glory, with the end purpose of His plan in mind. During the course of human history sin and evil must be allowed to run its course in order that all of creation may fully understand that the creature needs the Creator and that rebellion against God has severe consequences. If you have a problem with that, it is your problem. Not God's.
I have already addressed the issue concerning Ezekiel 28:11-19 and why the passage refers to Satan, and will not go over it again. Again, I don't make things up. As I also said, you are free to accept or reject what I said. Now, you've been given more than enough attention.
And the issue we are addressing is that this opinion of yours is to be found NOWHERE in the OT. You have to insert it there all on your own.
The problem you are facing here, is that originally the Jews had no concept of an evil opponent to God. God is all powerful. How could He have an opponent? The concept you are espousing, one reflected in the NT, is derived from Persian Zoroastrianism. According to ancient Persian beliefs, the Wise Lord Ahura Mazda, in order to give humankind the freedom of choice, split His nature into two parts, the wise loving part of his nature, and the evil lie, which became associated with the figure of the evil liar Angra Mainyu, also known as Ahriman.
A history lesson is needed here. In 539 BC when Cyrus the Great of Persia, who was a follower of the Zoroastrian God Ahura Mazda, defeated Babylon and gave the Jewish people the option to return to their homeland, or to remain within the Persian empire. Many returned, and many stayed. Over the course of the next six centuries there was a steady emigration of those with Jewish background from Persia back to Jerusalem. They would become a distinctly separate group within Jewish culture because of the Persian influenced religious beliefs they held in common which their Jewish beliefs. They would be known as Pharisees, or Farsi (Parsi; Persians).
Persian Language
Wikipedia
"Persian is a pluricentric language and its grammar is similar to that of many contemporary European languages. Persian is also so called due to its origin from the capital of the Achaemenid empire, Persis (Fars or Pars) hence the name Persian (Farsi or Parsi). "
Persian language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Jewish God was jealous and vindictive. The Persian God Ahura Mazda was wise and loving. Ahura Mazda literally means "Lord Wise." The Mazda Motor company chose the word Mazda for it's company name precisely because the word means "wise."
Zoroaster (Zarathrustra) was born circa the mid to late second millennium BC, and his primary message was of monotheism. There is only only one God of all creation, whom he called the Wise Lord, Ahura Mazda.
The precise date of the founding of Zoroastrianism is uncertain. An approximate date of 1200-1500 BCE has been established through archaeological evidence and linguistic comparisons with the Hindu text, the Rig Veda. BBC - Religions - Zoroastrian: Zoroaster
Modern Christianity has, arguably, more in common with ancient Persian beliefs than it does with Jewish beliefs. The Persians believed that 1,000 years after Zoroaster a direct ancestor of his would be born, and this individual would be the Messiah. He would sit at the right hand of Ahura Mazda and would be be the judge of mankind during the Final Judgement. Sound familiar? This belief was well known and already extremely popular throughout the Mediterranean world in the 1st century AD.
"Although a definite borrowing is still impossible to prove, the resemblances between Zoroastrianism and Judaism are numerous and probably took shape during the exile. First of all the figure of Satan, originally a servant of God appointed by Him as His prosecutor, came more and more to resemble Ahriman, the enemy of God. Secondly,the figure of the Messiah, originally a future king of Israel who would save his people from oppression evolved,in Deutro-Isaiah for instance, into a universal Savior very similar to the Iranian Saoshant(Savior). Thirdly, the entities that came to surround Yahweh, such as His wisdom and His spirit are comparable to the arch angels escorting Ahura Mazda; other points of comparison include the doctrine of the millenia; the Last Judgement; the heavenly book in which human actions are inscribed; the resurrection, the final transformation of the Earth; paradise of Heaven on Earth or in Heaven. Christianity seems to owe many features to Iran over and above those inherited from Judaism. Among others are probably the belief in guardian angels, resurrection and the heavenly journey of the soul."(Encyclopedia Americana,"Zoroastrianism"pp.813-815).
Now, notice that Gospel Matthew tells of "wise men" coming from the east to worship the baby Jesus. The word the KJV has chosen to translate as "wise men" is actually the word Magi in Greek.
Wikipedia
Magi (/ˈmeɪdʒaɪ/; Latin plural of magus; Ancient Greek: μάγος magos; Kurdish:mager,Old Persian: maguÅ¡, Persian: مُغ mogh; English singular magian, mage, magus, magusian, magusaean; , Turkish: mecî) is a term, used since at least the 6th century BCE, to denote followers of Zoroastrianism or Zoroaster. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magi
The Magi were Zoroastrian priests, famous for their learning and abilities in astrology. They were believed to possess magical powers, hence out words magic and magicians. Gospel Matthew depicts these individuals coming from the east (Persia) to sanctify the birth of the long awaited messiah. The author of Gospel Matthew clearly adhered to Persian beliefs himself, and was declaring to other Jewish Persian believers that the messiah had been born, and that the Messiah was Jesus.
What you are doing is attempting to rework Jewish beliefs to reflect the Persian aspects of your beliefs which pervade all of Christianity. You can personally subscribe to whatever it pleases you to make up for yourself to believe in. But you cannot simply make things up, insert it into someone else's belief system, declare it to be true, and then expect other people to to quietly buy into it simply because you say so.
What you are doing is attempting to rework Jewish beliefs to reflect the Persian aspects of your beliefs which pervade all of Christianity. You can personally subscribe to whatever it pleases you to make up for yourself to believe in. But you cannot simply make things up, insert it into someone else's belief system, declare it to be true, and then expect other people to quietly buy into it simply because you say so.
Exactly right. He is a product of his programming much as other fundamentalists, whether they be Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or whatever, are the product of their programming. And all fundamentalists need to realize that their particular worldview is not the only possible worldview.
Exactly right. He is a product of his programming much as other fundamentalists, whether they be Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or whatever, are the product of their programming. And all fundamentalists need to realize that their particular worldview is not the only possible worldview.
Men cannot comprehend the existence of their errors, when too deeply immersed in them.
Men cannot comprehend the existence of their errors, when too deeply immersed in them.
Humans are fallible, and as a result truth and error can be illusive concepts. And then of course we must ultimately rely on our not entirely reliable senses. This is why science has proven to be so effective in determining what is true. Science builds upon itself, each new step up in knowledge standing on the shoulders of a previous step. If one step in in error, the proceeding steps will not work as expected. Science has shown itself to be inherently self correcting for this reason. Only when each of the steps in the entire process is working as expected, do we produce working smart phones and computers and the like. And when the process does not work as claimed, we get 2,000 years of "He's coming back any minute now. Honestly! No one knows the hour of his return, but you can be certain that it's going to happen." And in the meantime, corpses remain adamantly dead, just as corpses everywhere and for all times are well known for doing.
Last edited by Tired of the Nonsense; 01-31-2016 at 04:10 PM..
You entrusted them with your money because you knew the government was just going to take it during your incarceration, because until you pay your debt to society, you have no rights to anything, not because you didn't want it rotting in some hole...
What a bunch of baloney (saying it very kindly)
I had already made my deal with the feds who several times acknowledged they knew I still possessed a lot of cash and had numerous connections south of the border long before I went away.
Consequently, when they asked me why I did not run my answer was simple because I did not want my Father to die alone, or be left to the mercy of my degenerate sister and her kids.............otherwise known as me honoring my parents as called for in the ten commandments that by this time were part of both my physical and spiritual makeup............ something you are still missing from being manifested within you
Because there was not even a request for a warrant for my arrest (let alone have a warrant) the reason why they were powerless to do anything about it let alone give me the length of time they wanted me serve was because in the eyes of the law my arrest was nothing more than a home invasion with a kidnapping.
Otherwise ,I would have done 30 plus years for the length of the time of the conspiracy (3 decades), the number of employees I had as well as their estimated amount of the tons of pot I smuggled over a 30 year career.,
LOL, they could not catch their own butts with hand full of treble hooks let alone me, and never did catch me with anything !!!
What they did get was my ******* attorney to give me up that included him taking a 6 digit gift from the lead prosecution witnesses's attorney. Some people suggest it was because I was sleeping with his wife but that is not true. On the other hand the truth is much darker including a lost government controlled delivery of a "significant amount of pot".
Consequently, and according to my legal advisors, because there is no statue of limitations on kidnapping with a home invasion they are still concerned over the possibility of me raising this issue and suing them and everybody else associated with my totally illegal arrest.
LOL, they deserve to worry, however, for the sake of things and the will of God while allowing them to feel that they have taken the pound of flesh from me that they wanted to have, I will continue to let things sit until God tells me to do otherwise (something to far over your head for you to even begin to understand).
As for you and everyone else here, my testimony has been online for years and my real name is not hidden from anyone
Fair enough?
Last edited by Livelystone; 01-31-2016 at 10:07 PM..
EDIT........ Did not mean to quote my own post......... sorry
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