Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
That is a belief and just because you believe that doesn't make it true. That is why we have a 3rd voice...the Bible to set matters straight.
Wrong. That is why we have the Holy Spirit--to tell us when ANYONE, including biblical authors, got it wrong.
Don't believe me?? How about Jesus?
Consider the Hebrew belief in Leviticus 19:17--
Quote:
You shall not hate your fellow countryman in your heart; you may surely reprove your neighbor, but shall not incur sin because of him.
Yet Jesus clearly stated that the Law was inadequate and improper. When a lawyer approached Jesus with the question about the greatest commandments Jesus gave two--(1)Love God with all your strength and mind and heart, and (2) Love your neighbor as yourself.
The lawyer seeking to justify himself asked "Who is my neighbor?"
Did Jesus tell him a story about one of the lawyer's poor fellow countrymen--as the LAW explicitly states? No, he told him a story about a good Samaritan--an absolute ENEMY of the lawyer.
Think of it in these "modern" terms. Not only did Jesus state the LAW as literally read was an apostasy, He stated that a homosexual who stops to help an injured man on the side of the road was the neighbor of the "Christian" whom he helped. In other words, by writing some people off, you may very well be writing off the one who could "save" YOU, for that "ungodly" man, and all men, are your neighbors.
The good Samaritan parable offers a vision of life rather than death. It evokes 2 Chronicles 28, which recounts how the prophet Oded convinced the Samaritans to aid their Judean captives. It insists that enemies can prove to be neighbors, that compassion has no boundaries, and that judging people will leave us dying in a ditch.
So a "literal" interpretation of Scripture is for fools. Jesus saw beyond the Sacred Page to the heart of God---and the eyes for such a vision come not from Scripture but from the Holy Spirit.
Some Christians pick and choose what parts of the bible they will decide to take literally and what parts they will not. Are only parts of the Bible inspired?
When the creation account in Genesis describes the Moon being a light source of its own and not "reflecting light" as the world teaches.
Would it be so hard for God to inspire the writer to write " the lesser light reflects the greater light"
In Genesis people are living to be almost 1000 years old.
Book of Joshua describing the Sun and the Moon standing still. (not the earth, if earth that we are told is rotating 1000 miles per hour was to suddenly stop, what would happen to the earth?)
Would it be so hard for God to inspire the writer to say the earth stood still ?
The creation of the life on earth being about 6000 years ago and more...etc.
If we as Christians believe that Satan is real and has deceived the whole world and is in control of this planet, why would it be so hard to believe that he is not controlling all of the important information that is put out to the masses, especially information that would cause people to doubt the Bible?
By what authority do Christians have the right to choose not to believe some parts and believe others?
If someone says, I do not believe in a literal creation account nor Adam and eve, or perhaps some of the other above issue I mentioned, but then say I believe that Jesus is the Son of God and he did many miracles and was raised from the dead. By what reason? Because with that logic, a Christian can chose to just believe what ever he or she wants from the bible and no other Christian can say anything about it.
commonsense and reason. along with each other. the all or nothing stance is not normal in everyday life.
No, the Bible is not how we know the truth. Jesus is and He abides with us as the Comforter sent in His name to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts" NOT "written in ink" in the Bible. Jesus is the Truth, the Life and the Way, NOT the Bible.
Where did you get the idea 'written in our hearts' not 'written in ink'? What are you quoting? Or do you speak for Jesus? If so, how can I know that you truly are when so many other people claim the same but do not speak as you do? Why isn't Jesus writing the same thing on everyone's hearts? Why don't you start every post with 'Jesus has told me to tell you'? Perhaps you can give me a list of prophesies that Jesus has told you that have come true.
I tend to think of inerrancy from a logical standpoint, and would start with the quote by pneuma from the above Tentmaker thread – ‘all scripture is inspired by God but not everything in our bibles is scripture’. Pneuma shows how according to the biblical record, Jesus says two different types of things – “It is written”, and “you have heard it said”. The principle is that if Jesus says something is “scripture” (eg. “today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing”) or “it is written” then he is referring to words in the Bible that are inspired by God. If He says “you have heard it said”, then even if it is in the bible (Tanach) as being the law of God or what have you, it is NOT scripture, i.e. not inspired by God. The reason for the necessary distinction is due to the lying pen of the scribes, as pneuma discusses – people/men inserting their ideas as to what God ‘meant to say’. This interpretation of the word ‘scripture’ fits perfectly with 2 Timothy 3:16, - ‘All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness’.
Granted, people use the word scripture also in a generic sense, as meaning the whole of the Bible. So in answer to the OP and thread question, most of the Bible is inspired by God - some of it is just man's ideas of what he thought God meant to say, I.e. "I Paul, not the Lord".
Wrong. That is why we have the Holy Spirit--to tell us when ANYONE, including biblical authors, got it wrong.
Don't believe me?? How about Jesus?
Consider the Hebrew belief in Leviticus 19:17--
Yet Jesus clearly stated that the Law was inadequate and improper. When a lawyer approached Jesus with the question about the greatest commandments Jesus gave two--(1)Love God with all your strength and mind and heart, and (2) Love your neighbor as yourself.
The lawyer seeking to justify himself asked "Who is my neighbor?"
Did Jesus tell him a story about one of the lawyer's poor fellow countrymen--as the LAW explicitly states? No, he told him a story about a good Samaritan--an absolute ENEMY of the lawyer.
Did you read the very next verse Lev 19:18? "you must love your fellow man as yourself." Fellow man covers everyone and Jesus was not calling the law inadequate but magnifying part of the law that the 'lawyer' was skipping. Just as you just skipped the very next verse in Lev chapter 19 to trick others as the lawyer was trying to accomplish. If the Holy Spirit was telling people parts of the Bible was false then God's Son Jesus was working against himself. There is absolutely nothing Jesus did to call any part of the Bible false. Jesus came to fulfill the law not destroy it or call it false. Matthew 5:17, 18 says, “Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill.Truly I say to you that sooner would heaven and earth pass away than for one smallest letter or one stroke of a letter to pass away from the Law until all things take place." Do you believe this to be true?
No, the Bible is not how we know the truth. Jesus is and He abides with us as the Comforter sent in His name to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts" NOT "written in ink" in the Bible. Jesus is the Truth, the Life and the Way, NOT the Bible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316
Where did you get the idea 'written in our hearts' not 'written in ink'? What are you quoting? Or do you speak for Jesus? If so, how can I know that you truly are when so many other people claim the same but do not speak as you do? Why isn't Jesus writing the same thing on everyone's hearts? Why don't you start every post with 'Jesus has told me to tell you'? Perhaps you can give me a list of prophesies that Jesus has told you that have come true.
This:
Hebrews 8:7-13 King James Version (KJV)
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
John 14:26 King James Version (KJV)
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
1 John 2:27 (King James Version)
27But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.
2 Corinthians 3: 2-6 (King James Version)
2Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
I know the truth of Jesus. He loved women and children. He never said a thing against LGBTQ. He never expected women to submit.
He died a tortured, screaming death, crucified by Rome, aided and abetted by the Temple priests: who were hand picked by Rome. I believe Jesus was very charismatic man who changed the world, and his death has little to do with it.
Paul's arrogance, misogyny, anger and rage are very clear. None of Paul represents God. Paul represents Paul.
Paul was appointed by God and Christ to be the apostle for the nations. The twelve believed as much. Paul was never arrogant. Nor was he misogynous:
dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.
"she felt she was struggling against thinly disguised misogyny"
He worked with the women in the church. He told the husbands to love their wives. Sure, in one church he told the women to not teach but learn in quietness. They were probably getting out of hand in trying to rule over the men and husbands.
He didn't display anger or rage. Paul always tried to represent God and the Lord Jesus. Paul represents Christ.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
John 14:26 King James Version (KJV)
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
1 John 2:27 (King James Version)
27But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.
2 Corinthians 3: 2-6 (King James Version)
2Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
The law being written on those of Israel is yet future.
I wonder why you stopped at verse 6 of 2 Corinthians? Why not go on to verse 7?:
2Co 3:6 Who also makes us competent dispensers of a new covenant, not of the letter, but of the spirit, for the letter is killing, yet the spirit is vivifying."
2Co 3:7 (Now if the dispensation of death, by letters chiseled in stone, came in glory, so that the sons of Israel were not able to look intently into the face of Moses, because of the glory of his face, which was being nullified,
The letter is not all the words in the Bible. It is the letter of the context Paul was getting at which was the letter of the law. Those letter chiseled in stone by Moses making up the 10 commandments.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
John 14:26 King James Version (KJV)
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
1 John 2:27 (King James Version)
27But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.
2 Corinthians 3: 2-6 (King James Version)
2Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
Wait a minute...you just used the Bible....but you said and I quote "No, the Bible is not how we know the truth." By your own words I shouldn't listen to what you just quoted in the Bible. You're whole argument is null and void based on your own paradoxical use of the Bible. What you just did falls in line with being hypocritical. (I can do this and get away with it but others can't.)
The scriptures you quote are still correct but they have been removed from context and your own personal interpretation assigned to them. If I were to add the context using the very same books and the very same writers would you listen to what the rest of the Bible has to say? As of right now, since you are using Bible to prove your point (though with the use of cherry picking) you have voided your own statement 'the Bible is not how we get truth'. Yet I asked for truth and where did you go? I have to assume you don't believe your own words.
I'd like to show you one example if you allow the Bible to continue to speak: Do you know what Paul was speaking of when he said 'Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men"? Read further down in the same chapter verse 15 to 18 it says,
"But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord." - 2 Corinthians 3:15-18
Did you catch the first part? How that a vail covers the hearts of those reading the Bible (in their day the OT) unless they accept the fulfillment of Jesus, only then can the Writings of Moses be understood? So, Paul was not degrading the what the Bible writers wrote. In fact Paul was glorifying the Old Testament as truth. As we read further down we see what it means that it is written in our hearts. It is because when we show what we listen to God's Word and live by it then we are like a mirror of God Word. Putting His commandments in our lives makes us manifested version of His Word. There is nothing in that whole chapter that refutes that the Bible is not God's Word.
Would you like the Bible to explain the other scriptures you quoted?
Wait a minute...you just used the Bible....but you said and I quote "No, the Bible is not how we know the truth." By your own words I shouldn't listen to what you just quoted in the Bible. You're whole argument is null and void based on your own paradoxical use of the Bible. What you just did falls in line with being hypocritical. (I can do this and get away with it but others can't.)
Very perspicuous of you to note that.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
