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That's not what it the matter is about.
In reality, this issue is not even about religion.
It's about the abillity or current lack thereof of like-minded
citizens to live within a society that is harmonious with their
long-standing beliefs and expectations, for themselves and
for their children. I would once again remind you that
aversion to homosexuality is not an exclusively Christian moral.
Well-stated.
True bigotry is when someone cannot comprehend how another can have a rational, cogent argument or conviction about something they disagree with. Far too often, the liberal left thinks tolerance is only a 1-way street.
Romans 6:1-2 "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?"
Not that it matters to you what the Bible actually says....
past tense "were" ... there is an expected change of behavior 1 Corinthians 6:11 And that is what some of you were.
and what was that --- "were": (pick whatever translation)
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 NIV
past tense "were" ... there is an expected change of behavior 1 Corinthians 6:11 And that is what some of you were.
and what was that --- "were": (pick whatever translation)
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 NIV
sexually immoral
idolaters
adulterers
men who have sex with men
thieves
the greedy
drunkards
slanderers
swindlers
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 KJV
fornicators
idolaters
adulterers
effeminate
nor abusers of themselves with mankind
thieves
covetous
drunkards
revilers
extortioners
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 YLT
whoremongers
idolaters
adulterers
effeminate
sodomites
thieves
covetous
drunkards
revilers
extortioners
I recognize that. And we are not to continue in that, per Romans 6, as well as 1 Cor 6. There is the expectation that we are no longer doing those things. While they are not "counted against us", the Law still tells us what sin is. We should be striving to NOT do those things.
I have to be careful and not react too strongly towards certain people trying to make everyone believe their behavior is normal; and okay. What seems to happen over time is that if enough people say a certain behavior is okay, then it becomes "okay" in society's eyes, and if one objects to it- you are then considered bigoted and hateful. God doesn't change His standards just becuase man does, however. I have to allow Him to remind me that I've done plenty of wrong, and to not be judgemental towards others with different sins than mine.
True bigotry is when someone cannot comprehend how another can have a rational, cogent argument or conviction about something they disagree with. Far too often, the liberal left thinks tolerance is only a 1-way street.
If you would all stay within your own community to practice your god-awful beliefs, that would be fine with the rest of us. But you wish to impose it upon all society. That is a trait of fascism. None of us gives a tinker's dam about what you "believe," until you bring it in to mainstream society. Then you become just another extremist viewpoint like the Westboro Baptist Church.
And don't think for a minute that your teaching isn't viewed exactly like that of Westboro. You may not wish it, you may not agree with it--but there it is, a fact which cannot be denied. You've done more to hinder the spread of Good News than Roman persecution was able to accomplish.
Bigotry is a state of mind that is firmly entrenched among fundamentalists. I WAS a fundamentalist until a life event got me to look at myself--which is where fundamentalists go wrong--they NEVER look at themselves and consider themselves to be the greatest sinner ever. I managed to CHANGE, which means if I can do it, so can you---unless you make the fateful decision not to learn and not to change.
And so have others--who have faced even more of the same kind of vitriolic condemnation from former "friends" than I did:
Quote:
Michael Coren is a long-time broadcaster and columnist, known for bringing his conservative Catholic point of view into his commentary. He used to be vocally opposed to same-sex marriage, but lately he has changed his mind, becoming an advocate for gay rights. He describes his conversion in Epiphany: A Christian's Change of Heart and Mind over Same-Sex Marriage. --------------
There are loving, wonderful people out there who simply believe that marriage is only between a man and a woman. I may disagree with that, but I understand that. But that is not the majority strain. The majority of emails I received were not criticisms — they were vitriolic. They were trolling my children's Facebook pages. My wife received an email saying "You know your husband is destined for hell." I was accused of being an adulterer, a thief, that I had a breakdown, that I was doing it all for money
So just understand how you make many in the "outside" world look at you. It is not with longing for the love of Jesus, it is with the disgust of a Jew for a Nazi.
If you would all stay within your own community to practice your god-awful beliefs, that would be fine with the rest of us. But you wish to impose it upon all society. That is a trait of fascism. None of us gives a tinker's dam about what you "believe," until you bring it in to mainstream society. Then you become just another extremist viewpoint like the Westboro Baptist Church.
And don't think for a minute that your teaching isn't viewed exactly like that of Westboro. You may not wish it, you may not agree with it--but there it is, a fact which cannot be denied. You've done more to hinder the spread of Good News than Roman persecution was able to accomplish.
Bigotry is a state of mind that is firmly entrenched among fundamentalists. I WAS a fundamentalist until a life event got me to look at myself--which is where fundamentalists go wrong--they NEVER look at themselves and consider themselves to be the greatest sinner ever. I managed to CHANGE, which means if I can do it, so can you---unless you make the fateful decision not to learn and not to change.
And so have others--who have faced even more of the same kind of vitriolic condemnation from former "friends" than I did:
What do you NOT understand about "GOD IS NOT COUNTING OUR SINS AGAINST US?????" Why are you so preoccupied (I would say obsessed) with sin????
Quote:
Originally Posted by perry335654
`No, you are the one that does not understand when we accept Christ as our Lord and Savior does not mean we keep in our sins, we as individuals are to have a change of mind and heart as the Holy Spirit within us has made us renewed, like wiping the slate clean as we want to be like Christ .Jesus died on the cross to carry that burden of sin for all mankind so we didn't have to count the numerous sins in the past but to know that they have been forgiven.
Once again we are dealing with 'the brainwashed' here. They keep on and on and on talking about sin, sin, sin as though pointing out 'the sins' of others is the total sum of Christian teaching. This has become a chronic disease that has infected SO MUCH of mainstream Christianity and its followers. There appears to be no cure. Moreover, these pathetic individuals display their complete ignorance to the fact that one's sexual orientation is 'sin neutral', i.e. there is no 'right' or 'wrong' about one's being gay or straight. I'm just about at the end of my rope trying to debate this issue with the ignorant.
You and I, Perry, are clearly on a different page here. Firstly, there is no wrong connected with one's being homosexual. There is no wrong connected with one's being heterosexual. That's not an opinion. That's a fact. Secondly, there is no more wrong connected to mutual homosexual intimate practices than there is wrong connected to mutual heterosexual intimate practices. Sure, in an ideal world sex would only ever occur between two people who choose a life-long commitment and have documentation to show this. But, we don't live in an ideal world. So, I would never dare ask for a show of hands from my 'saintly' congregation by asking how many of them had had sex before marriage!
'Sex before commitment' is what most people do (including many Christians) so don't let us kid ourselves that they don't. In other words, both gay and straight people, Christian and non-Christian, have had casual sex, perhaps many times. So, there is no difference here between gay and straight people. Both have committed exactly the same scriptural 'sin'. Right? The difference is that this 'heterosexual sin' is brushed under the carpet and forgotten about once a decision is made to commit one's self to a monogamous relationship ...no matter the trail of previous sexual partners the individual might have left behind him/her.
These days gay people are choosing to commit themselves to a monogamous relationship with another of like sexuality ...just the same as the straight folks do. No difference. Yes, the gay ones may also have left a trail of previous sexual partners behind them ...again, just like the straight folks.
Now, Perry, I'd like you to tell me PRECISELY what the difference is in my above description of a homosexual relationship as comparable to that of a heterosexual relationship. Why is the homosexual relationship seen to be 'a sin' but the heterosexual relationship not? Why would a homosexual relationship anger "God"? Why does a homosexual relationship anger so many Christians?
I'm a stickler for facts, Perry, so make it good ...!
I'm not proud at all. I'm actually amazed that one with so little reasoning power as myself is able to out study and out reason people like--well, YOU!!
If you would all stay within your own community to practice your god-awful beliefs, that would be fine with the rest of us.
I find it amazing to be lectured by an atheist (I think?) on a "Christianity" board...and be told that I need to stay in my own little community. The irony of that is astounding.
Quote:
But you wish to impose it upon all society. That is a trait of fascism.
We are citizens of the US, and members of society. We have a right to express our views of how our society should be--just as you do.
Quote:
None of us gives a tinker's dam about what you "believe," until you bring it in to mainstream society. Then you become just another extremist viewpoint like the Westboro Baptist Church.
Weird. I was thinking that the 1% of the population forcing gay marriage on society, or the liberal left preaching a 1-way tolerance was the fascism. It's weird that you can't see that.
Quote:
And don't think for a minute that your teaching isn't viewed exactly like that of Westboro. You may not wish it, you may not agree with it--but there it is, a fact which cannot be denied. You've done more to hinder the spread of Good News than Roman persecution was able to accomplish.
I'm really sorry you feel that way. Something tells me that the "Good News" that you'd have us preach has nothing to do with God.
Quote:
Bigotry is a state of mind that is firmly entrenched among fundamentalists. I WAS a fundamentalist until a life event got me to look at myself--which is where fundamentalists go wrong--they NEVER look at themselves and consider themselves to be the greatest sinner ever. I managed to CHANGE, which means if I can do it, so can you---unless you make the fateful decision not to learn and not to change.
Please don't project your bigotry on me.
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