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Jeff's or anyone else's disagreements based on personal opinions have no bearing as to whether the Bible addresses homosexuality or whether it does not. I say that the Bible does not address homosexuality and this is based on my reading of the Bible and has nothing to do with 'agreeing' or 'disagreeing'. It's simply FACT . . .
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Originally Posted by Vizio
I'm sure we're all familiar with the passages in Leviticus . . .
Yes, we are. Done and dusted. Leviticus is about as much use to we of today (it's 2016 folks, NOT 1513 BC!) as is 'boiling a kid in its mother's milk' (Deuteronomy 14:21). I don't know about anyone else but I've never been tempted to do that!
HOWEVER, for those who choose to follow all of the 613-odd laws of the Old Testament ...knock yourselves out!
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Originally Posted by Vizio
Romans, 1 Cor, etc.
Again, we're living in the year 2016. As far as i know (I could be wrong) there are no temples nowadays where man-made deities are worshiped (well, maybe the Catholic Church ) and certainly no sacred male and female prostitutes performing sexual rituals with its members. So, Romans 1, 1 Cor. etc. has also been done and dusted.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
We know that God created male and female, and he said it was good that they were together.
And it was good. Male and female were necessary in order to procreate. And procreating was what it was all about back then. However, 'love' is not a requirement for procreation. Take Lot and his daughters ...please . . . Procreation is no more than a physical act and it can be accomplished even when one of the parties involved is passed out.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
He never once suggested homosexual relationships were good,
But incest was okay and sex with multiple wives was all the go for those who could afford them. See, women were property, just a tad higher in status than cattle. And, God was fine with that. God was also fine with pretty young virgin damsels taken as 'spoils of war' by the men who had just pillaged their village and killed everyone else off. Yes, God winked at rape. But yet, God never once suggested that consensual homosexual relationships were good.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
. . .and Jesus certainly didn't endorse it.
That's right. Jesus didn't endorse homosexuality. Jesus didn't condemn homosexuality either. In fact, come to think of it ...Jesus didn't say ANYTHING about homosexuality at all! I guess we'll never know his feelings on the subject! But, Jesus must have been against homosexuality because, well, He just MUST have been ...right?
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Originally Posted by Vizio
But hey..if you want to put words in God's mouth and make it seem like he's all for it?
"I'm" not the one who claims to speak for God ...YOU are! I just report stuff from the Bible as I read and comprehend it. The Bible is not God ...it's a book.
That's right. Jesus didn't endorse homosexuality. Jesus didn't condemn homosexuality either. In fact, come to think of it ...Jesus didn't say ANYTHING about homosexuality at all! I guess we'll never know his feelings on the subject! But, Jesus must have been against homosexuality because, well, He just MUST have been ...right?
Jesus didn't condemn pedophilia either, or so many other topics He didn't specifically address. That does not mean we must assume we just dont know His opinion on pedophilia since the rest of the Bible is just as much His Word.
Its obvious by our very nature, our way of procreation, family life etc. that men and women were created for each other. And the Bible doesn't limit itself to the red letter parts of Christs words either, the rest of it is just as much Gods Word, Christs Word. Its not any less Divinely inspired, and not any less authoritative.
Jesus didn't condemn pedophilia either, or so many other topics He didn't specifically address. That does not mean we must assume we just dont know His opinion on pedophilia since the rest of the Bible is just as much His Word.
Its obvious by our very nature, our way of procreation, family life etc. that men and women were created for each other. And the Bible doesn't limit itself to the red letter parts of Christs words either, the rest of it is just as much Gods Word, Christs Word. Its not any less Divinely inspired, and not any less authoritative.
Pedophilia involves MINOR and the relation is COERCED (persuade (an unwilling person) to do something by using force or threats.) and not MUTUAL.
What is wrong with a mutual relationship where BOTH parties are of age of CONSENT?
BUT THE BIBLE DOES CONDONE (accept and allow (behavior that is considered morally wrong or offensive) to continue) INCEST!!!!
That's right. Jesus didn't endorse homosexuality. Jesus didn't condemn homosexuality either. In fact, come to think of it ...Jesus didn't say ANYTHING about homosexuality at all! I guess we'll never know his feelings on the subject! But, Jesus must have been against homosexuality because, well, He just MUST have been ...right?
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Originally Posted by Chanokh
Jesus didn't condemn pedophilia either, or so many other topics He didn't specifically address. That does not mean we must assume we just don't know His opinion on pedophilia since the rest of the Bible is just as much His Word.
We've seen in recent times how the subject of homosexuality has divided the Christian Church and still continues to do so. So yes, it might be expected that Jesus would have broached the subject if it had been that important. But, He didn't and THAT is all we can report on. There is no point in bringing up other topics that Jesus never mentioned as if this somehow adds support to the anti-gay stance. That Jesus (apparently) never said anything about homosexuality should be enough.
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Originally Posted by Chanokh
Its obvious by our very nature, our way of procreation, family life etc. that men and women were created for each other.
If it were that clear cut then people of the same gender would not be sexually attracted to one another, would they? But they are. One cannot apply terms such as 'obvious' or 'natural' when it comes to human sexuality.
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Originally Posted by Chanokh
And the Bible doesn't limit itself to the red letter parts of Christs words either, the rest of it is just as much Gods Word, Christs Word. Its not any less Divinely inspired, and not any less authoritative.
Does this divine authority include the atrocities committed and commanded by the tyrannical God of the Old Testament? Where is your evidence that the Bible - either in whole or in part - is divinely inspired?
Pedophilia involves MINOR and the relation is COERCED (persuade (an unwilling person) to do something by using force or threats.) and not MUTUAL.
What is wrong with a mutual relationship where BOTH parties are of age of CONSENT?
BUT THE BIBLE DOES CONDONE (accept and allow (behavior that is considered morally wrong or offensive) to continue) INCEST!!!!
Pedophilia is just another form of sexual orientation in your world. The design of a male and female's anatomy pretty much shouts to the heavens that they were meant to go together physically. Another else is a perversion of God's design and really an insult to God.
We've seen in recent times how the subject of homosexuality has divided the Christian Church and still continues to do so. So yes, it might be expected that Jesus would have broached the subject if it had been that important. But, He didn't and THAT is all we can report on. There is no point in bringing up other topics that Jesus never mentioned as if this somehow adds support to the anti-gay stance. That Jesus (apparently) never said anything about homosexuality should be enough.
If it were that clear cut then people of the same gender would not be sexually attracted to one another, would they? But they are. One cannot apply terms such as 'obvious' or 'natural' when it comes to human sexuality.
Does this divine authority include the atrocities committed and commanded by the tyrannical God of the Old Testament? Where is your evidence that the Bible - either in whole or in part - is divinely inspired?
Old and New Testament, it's the same God. And Jesus did talk about marriage, male and female becoming one flesh. It's so simple, marriage is for a man and a woman, that is Gods perfect design.
Mark 10:1-12 And he arose from thence, and cometh into the coasts of Judaea by the farther side of Jordan: and the people resort unto him again; and, as he was wont, he taught them again. And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him. And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away. And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter. And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.
Where is my evidence? My evidence is the Holy Spirit in my heart, affirming what the Word of God says is true and renewing me from day to day to kill the flesh and become more like Jesus Christ. My evidence is a complete transformation as a person, a new life, free from addiction, free from bondage to sin. My evidence is the people that knew me before I was born again, astonished how God has changed my heart and life. My evidence is a heart that daily longs to be with Jesus Christ, that lives for Him. That same heart used to daily live for women, porn, poker, drugs etc. My evidence is the deliverance the Lord Jesus Christ did of a friend of mine (through me) from multiple demonic forces, that audibly talked through his mouth and tortured him for a long time because of his mother being deep into the occult.
I could go on, but none of that is going to matter for you. You need to be born again to be able to see the kingdom of God. And until that time you will just mock every ounce of truth and every Word from God or His followers. You need a new heart aswell Romulus, the good news is that it's available.. repent from your sin and put your faith in Jesus Christ, the sinless Son of God. Your new life, your new heart, the Holy Spirit guiding you, will be plenthy of evidence. But until you do that, you are stuck in your unbelief, in your pride and anger, hostility against God and truth. And no discussion or 'evidence' will change that, only God can change that.
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Procreation is no more than a physical act and it can be accomplished even when one of the parties involved is passed out.
