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Prayer never hurts, but will prayer #1001 work when the first 1000 didn't? Who knows, but not everyone is seeking God, or knocking on the door. Many reject the Gospel, and will go their graves doing so. Paul prayed for the Romans, and in the end they killed him anyway. All, except one, apostles were all killed by the people they prayed for, although they knew that most of them had hardened their hearts against the truth. At the same time Jesus had taught them to dust their sandals, and to not throw pearls to the swine.
So, there is a balance between these verses:
"But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you"
"If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet"
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."
So we are to pray the same prayer a million times until god gets sick an tired of us and finally grants our desire, which he has known all a long but wants us to repeat it ?
So should this worthless prayer be done hourly? Then god will give in sooner? Weekly? Monthly?
What is the purpose of the Christian praying, when none of those prayers might even be answered? Will God praise him for the "effort"? He knows that it won't make a difference whether he prays or not, because God has either elected an individual or He hasn't.
And if no Christian ever makes an effort for a particular individual, God will still save that individual if He has elected to do so.
So what is the purpose of an effort that has no real consequence? Why pray if we can't change God's mind through prayer?
(No, I don't believe this but I know that this is what fundamentalist Christians believe.)
I've enjoyed debating and arguing and defending the faith for awhile on these boards. A thought occurred to me....are we praying for the atheists and trolls that frequent the board?
Have you prayed that God would move in them and turn their hostility into faith?
Unless you think you know the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth (and no reasonable person thinks such a thing), then you are also praying that God would move in you and turn your hostility against whatever truth you shun into faith, right?
I've enjoyed debating and arguing and defending the faith for awhile on these boards. A thought occurred to me....are we praying for the atheists and trolls that frequent the board?
Have you prayed that God would move in them and turn their hostility into faith?
Never occurred to me. But I just tried it.
"Dear Lord, please change the atheists and trolls who post on City-Data."
Answer I got: "How about you worry about what YOU say and do instead?"
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 Says the one mocking me?
comprehension, comprehension --- without it one flounders like a fish out of water.
And I do not direct it towards christians--just their misguided beliefs...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
My post was not intended to be mocking. I was saying that if your intent was to mock, that should say a lot.
I'm sorry if you took it as mocking.
What in the.....is going on here??? zthatzmanz posts lots of pro-fundamentalist stuff and yet he and Vizio are at each others' throats? Now I've seen everything!
By the way, Vizio, do you believe sinners will burn in a literal fiery hell?
What is the purpose of the Christian praying, when none of those prayers might even be answered? Will God praise him for the "effort"? He knows that it won't make a difference whether he prays or not, because God has either elected an individual or He hasn't.
And if no Christian ever makes an effort for a particular individual, God will still save that individual if He has elected to do so.
So what is the purpose of an effort that has no real consequence? Why pray if we can't change God's mind through prayer?
(No, I don't believe this but I know that this is what fundamentalist Christians believe.)
Incorrect. Christians do not believe prayer has no real consequence, it is what YOU believe.
I asked earlier if prayer #1001 would work when the first 1000 didn't work, because sometimes people repeat the same prayer and then wonder why it is not answered. You can pray to win the lottery, and you can repeat the prayer 1000 times, but when your selfish prayer is not in line with God's will, you might as well talk to the wall.
"You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions"
In the other hand:
"if we ask anything according to his will he hears us."
God is outside of time. He knows whether or not we will pray out of obedience and trust. What happens today may not have any discernible actions/consequences for 100s or 1000s of years.
The Pilgrims continued on even after being "beaten" back numerous times. Most of us would have believed God closed the door on a dream to be able to worship and Honor God freely. But, yet they pushed on believe their sacrifice would be realized generations down the line. And that is exactly what happened.
Tragedies happen because of free will. Christians (obviously) are not immune from tragedy. But seeking how that can be used or is to be used for God's glory that is the key.
My wife and I lost a child during pregnancy years ago. A good friend shared a very short, powerful book I'll Hold You In Heaven by Jack Hayford. We made that a part of our ministry to others in the same position. Our tragedy became help and comfort to others.
I've enjoyed debating and arguing and defending the faith for awhile on these boards. A thought occurred to me....are we praying for the atheists and trolls that frequent the board?
Have you prayed that God would move in them and turn their hostility into faith?
Until you quit cherry-picking which questions to address and (even more irritating ) answering questions with questions and (most irritating of all ) running away from/ignoring questions too difficult/impossible for you to answer, all your prayers for us won't help a single individual here unless you're ready to step up to the bat and stop being such a hypocrite.
Incorrect. Christians do not believe prayer has no real consequence, it is what YOU believe.
I asked earlier if prayer #1001 would work when the first 1000 didn't work, because sometimes people repeat the same prayer and then wonder why it is not answered. You can pray to win the lottery, and you can repeat the prayer 1000 times, but when your selfish prayer is not in line with God's will, you might as well talk to the wall.
"You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions"
In the other hand:
"if we ask anything according to his will he hears us."
Ahh such a feel good movie...Though I have a hard time believing prayers are only not answered because they're selfish. Too many circumstances around the world seem to suggest that's not the case.
Incorrect. Christians do not believe prayer has no real consequence, it is what YOU believe.
I asked earlier if prayer #1001 would work when the first 1000 didn't work, because sometimes people repeat the same prayer and then wonder why it is not answered. You can pray to win the lottery, and you can repeat the prayer 1000 times, but when your selfish prayer is not in line with God's will, you might as well talk to the wall.
"You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions"
In the other hand:
"if we ask anything according to his will he hears us."
So I suppose praying that your terminally sick 3-year-old will be healed is "spending it on your passions." and totally out of God's will, especially when James commands people to call their church elders to lay hands on the sick and they will be healed (James 5:14-15)??????
What hubris.
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zthatzmanz posts lots of pro-fundamentalist stuff and yet he and Vizio are at each others' throats? Now I've seen everything! 
) answering questions with questions and (most irritating of all 
:
