Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm not looking at it backwards. The Torah is the Word that was made flesh (celestial "flesh" of Christ). I think you and pcamps think the flesh He was talking about was the man Jesus? Peace
Do you think that john 1:14 should read ..... and the word became "celestial" flesh?
The word that is used for flesh is the same one that is used for all natural people
Romans 1:
3regarding His Son, who was a descendant of David according to flesh, 4and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by His resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. 5Through Him and on behalf of His name, we received grace and apostleship to call all those among the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith.
Read all of Galatians 3. And 5
23But before faith came, we were guarded under law, shut up to faith [which was] about to be revealed. 24So that the law has been our tutor up to Christ, that we might be justified on the principle of faith. 25But, faith having come, we are no longer under a tutor;
It seems to me that the written Torah was the schoolmaster to bring all Israel, both the house of Judah and Israel, to Christ.
We are not required to go back to the physical written Torah, since Christ was raised we follow his exampe.
Do you think that john 1:14 should read ..... and the word became "celestial" flesh?
The word that is used for flesh is the same one that is used for all natural people
Romans 1:
3regarding His Son, who was a descendant of David according to flesh, 4and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by His resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. 5Through Him and on behalf of His name, we received grace and apostleship to call all those among the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith.
Read all of Galatians 3. And 5
23But before faith came, we were guarded under law, shut up to faith [which was] about to be revealed. 24So that the law has been our tutor up to Christ, that we might be justified on the principle of faith. 25But, faith having come, we are no longer under a tutor;
It seems to me that the written Torah was the schoolmaster to bring all Israel, both the house of Judah and Israel, to Christ.
We are not required to go back to the physical written Torah, since Christ was raised we follow his exampe.
The law will judge all flesh as there is a law for all flesh and a covenant pertaining to all first born sons who are alive and breathing according to flesh. This law is of Hagar and you are her son, Ishmael. You are Ishmael by the flesh because you are the first born of the flesh and the law pertains to all first born people who live this life and then will have another life.
The law will judge you as you are flesh.
THERE ARE TWO LAWS
THERE ARE TWO SONS
THERE ARE TWO MOTHERS
THERE ARE 2 JERUSALEMS
THE LAW WILL JUDGE ALL FLESH BUT THERE IS ANOTHER LAW OF GRACE.
YOU ARE A SLAVE TO THIS BODY OF DEATH AND FOUND GUILTY UNDER THE LAW BUT YOU ARE A FREE MAN IN CHRIST AND THE SPIRIT IS JUDGED BY THE OTHER LAW.
THE LAW WILL NOT EVER STOP PERTAINING TO THE FLESH JUST AS THE LAW OF FREEDOM WILL NEVER STOP PERTAINING TO THOSE WHO FIND GRACE.
Hagar and Sarah
21Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? 22For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. 28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. 30Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 31So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
Living by the Spirit ~ The two sons that YOU ARE, they struggle against each other. Two laws for two different sons.
16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
The law will judge all flesh as there is a law for all flesh and a covenant pertaining to all first born sons who are alive and breathing according to flesh. This law is of Hagar and you are her son, Ishmael. You are Ishmael by the flesh because you are the first born of the flesh and the law pertains to all first born people who live this life and then will have another life.
The law will judge you as you are flesh.
THERE ARE TWO LAWS
THERE ARE TWO SONS
THERE ARE TWO MOTHERS
THERE ARE 2 JERUSALEMS
THE LAW WILL JUDGE ALL FLESH BUT THERE IS ANOTHER LAW OF GRACE.
YOU ARE A SLAVE TO THIS BODY OF DEATH AND FOUND GUILTY UNDER THE LAW BUT YOU ARE A FREE MAN IN CHRIST AND THE SPIRIT IS JUDGED BY THE OTHER LAW.
THE LAW WILL NOT EVER STOP PERTAINING TO THE FLESH JUST AS THE LAW OF FREEDOM WILL NEVER STOP PERTAINING TO THOSE WHO FIND GRACE.
Hagar and Sarah
21Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? 22For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. 28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. 30Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 31So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
Living by the Spirit ~ The two sons that YOU ARE, they struggle against each other. Two laws for two different sons.
16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
Yes, There is flesh and spirit .... God is the potter and of the same lump makes a vessel of dishonour and honour
So we do not choose what we want to be ie when or where we are born and in what circumstances but we do have a choice in how we handle those circumstances.
That is what is judged ..... those that are given more, more is required.
There has always been a chosen ..... but their purpose is to bring blessing to the rest
How I see it the chosen are not better than the rest
Rom 11:25 For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be wise within yourselves, that hardness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the nations comes in;
Rom 11:26 and so all Israel will be saved, even as it has been written, "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob.
Rom 11:27 And this is My covenant with them, when I take away their sins." Isa. 59:20, 21
Rom 11:28 Indeed, as regards the gospel, ones hostile toward you, but as regards the election, beloved for the sake of the fathers.
Rom 11:29 For the free gifts and the calling of God are unregrettable.
Rom 11:30 For as you then also disobeyed God, but now have obtained mercy by the disobedience of these,
Rom 11:31 so also these now have disobeyed, so that they also may obtain mercy by your mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God shut up all into disobedience, that He may show mercy to all.
Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches and of the wisdom and the knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
Yes, There is flesh and spirit .... God is the potter and of the same lump makes a vessel of dishonour and honour
So we do not choose what we want to be ie when or where we are born and in what circumstances but we do have a choice in how we handle those circumstances.
You are missing the rest of this...Read the entire thing in context and then come back and tell me what you think Paul was talking about...
Quote:
That is what is judged ..... those that are given more, more is required.
There has always been a chosen ..... but their purpose is to bring blessing to the rest
How I see it the chosen are not better than the rest
Jews were chosen to be a light to Gentiles...That's all...
Quote:
Rom 11:26 and so all Israel will be saved, even as it has been written, "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob.
Rom 11:27 And this is My covenant with them, when I take away their sins." Isa. 59:20, 21
Notice the difference between the Tanakh and Christian Edited Old Testament?...Just by editing the "to" and changing it to "out of", changes the meaning...And it does not say that it will turn away ungodliness from Jacob, but, he comes to those who repent of transgressions in Jacob...So, you must ask yourself, why were there changes in this?...What was the purpose?...
Yeshayahu - Isaiah - Chapter 59
20 And a redeemer shall come to Zion, and to those who repent of transgression in Jacob, says the Lord.
Rashi's Commentary:
And a redeemer shall come to Zion: As long as Zion is in ruins, the redeemer has not yet come.
21 "As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the Lord. "My spirit, which is upon you and My words that I have placed in your mouth, shall not move from your mouth or from the mouth of your seed and from the mouth of your seed's seed," said the Lord, "from now and to eternity."
Rashi's Commentary:
As for Me, this is My covenant with them: In this matter, I made a covenant with them, and I will fulfill it, for even in their exile, My Torah shall not be forgotten from them.
This is speaking to Israel in bondage in Babylon...
Quote:
Rom 11:28 Indeed, as regards the gospel, ones hostile toward you, but as regards the election, beloved for the sake of the fathers.
Rom 11:29 For the free gifts and the calling of God are unregrettable.
Rom 11:30 For as you then also disobeyed God, but now have obtained mercy by the disobedience of these,
Rom 11:31 so also these now have disobeyed, so that they also may obtain mercy by your mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God shut up all into disobedience, that He may show mercy to all.
Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches and of the wisdom and the knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
Yes, There is flesh and spirit .... God is the potter and of the same lump makes a vessel of dishonour and honour
So we do not choose what we want to be ie when or where we are born and in what circumstances but we do have a choice in how we handle those circumstances.
That is what is judged ..... those that are given more, more is required.
There has always been a chosen ..... but their purpose is to bring blessing to the rest
How I see it the chosen are not better than the rest
Rom 11:25 For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be wise within yourselves, that hardness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the nations comes in;
Rom 11:26 and so all Israel will be saved, even as it has been written, "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob.
Rom 11:27 And this is My covenant with them, when I take away their sins." Isa. 59:20, 21
Rom 11:28 Indeed, as regards the gospel, ones hostile toward you, but as regards the election, beloved for the sake of the fathers.
Rom 11:29 For the free gifts and the calling of God are unregrettable.
Rom 11:30 For as you then also disobeyed God, but now have obtained mercy by the disobedience of these,
Rom 11:31 so also these now have disobeyed, so that they also may obtain mercy by your mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God shut up all into disobedience, that He may show mercy to all.
Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches and of the wisdom and the knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
You aren't getting what I am saying. YOU are Ephraim, YOUR flesh is appointed for destruction. YOU are Cain, YOU are Esau, YOU are Ishmael.
That's what Galatians is teaching.
There is a law for your flesh,'' Ishmael,'' and there is a law of freedom for the seed of Isaac, YOU.
When Jesus came to make a covenant between Ephraim and Judah where he says,'' There is no Jew, and no Gentile,'' there is no Jew because all are Jews, there is no gentile because now all are gentile. There is no female because all are as brides housing a spirit, and all are male because they have a hidden man of the heart in spirit.
There is no slave and no free man because ALL are slaves in this body and all are free according to the law of grace.
While there is a physical Israel who are Judah, and a physical Ephraim made up of Gentiles, God has made you Ephraim AND Judah. Ephraim by the flesh and Judah by the spirit and there has always been two to show us what we are. Abel was the hidden man of the heart that Cain killed.
We see Jacob standing in the skins of his brother Esau because the two symbolize one man, God doesn't hate any man but God hates Esau because he represents flesh.
Galatians is explaining that there is a law for the flesh and there is a law for the spirit.
You live this life of flesh right now and the law judges the flesh, but you will also have a life after this life, a second born life, and the law of grace cleanses him.
When you die, an angel will come and collect the fallen spirit within you and he will be appointed his lot in prison while you make your crossing over from life to life where Jesus comes and takes you from the water at your crossing. The man of sin is within everyone, and he is appointed for destruction.
Do you think that john 1:14 should read ..... and the word became "celestial" flesh?
The word that is used for flesh is the same one that is used for all natural people
Romans 1:
3regarding His Son, who was a descendant of David according to flesh, 4and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by His resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. 5Through Him and on behalf of His name, we received grace and apostleship to call all those among the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith.
Read all of Galatians 3. And 5
23But before faith came, we were guarded under law, shut up to faith [which was] about to be revealed. 24So that the law has been our tutor up to Christ, that we might be justified on the principle of faith. 25But, faith having come, we are no longer under a tutor;
It seems to me that the written Torah was the schoolmaster to bring all Israel, both the house of Judah and Israel, to Christ.
We are not required to go back to the physical written Torah, since Christ was raised we follow his exampe.
I'm saying a spiritual principle is contained therein. The Torah/law and the prophets was spoken by G-d. G-d speaking is the same as creating. It's not a coincidence that the first letter of the Torah is bet which is used for "house". The very letters are like houses for some aspect of His Spirit which is Truth. Truth is not an abstract principle based on observable facts, it's a person, the person of the Spirit Seed Son of G-d. This is why when He arose He opened up the Torah/law and prophets and expounded to the two on the road, everything that pertained to Him, which was EVERYTHING in there. It's as the bones, that the Spirit Seed Son's celestial flesh hangs upon. Without bones, a body cannot stand upright (resurrect; stand upright).
Christians want the flesh, but not the bones. The Pharisees wanted the bones, but not the flesh, but it takes both to stand upright/resurrect up out of the grave of our body He is currently buried in. The Pharisees, for this reason were described as dead men's bones, because they failed to "enter the house" because they didn't knock. And so we are told to knock and it shall be opened to us. Same principle as striking the rock and the water of life came out, and same reason why the blood is manufactured in the bones, ie. comes out of the bones. THAT MEANS EVERY ONE OF THOSE "BONES" HAS LIFE IN IT.
What is opened is the Torah/law and the prophets that the risen One opened up to the two on the road. This is why it is said if they will not hear Moses and the prophets (Torah and prophets) then neither will they hear though one be raised from the dead, because the Torah and the prophets CONTAIN the One that be risen from the dead, as a house contains it's occupant. And so, it's equally true that the Spirit Seed Son was the Torah made (celestial) flesh. The Torah was ALWAYS in the heart of the Father, and we are told that G-d the Father was IN CHRIST/Spirit Seed Son, reconciling all men unto Himself. What you see here then, is the Torah/Seed Son/Father, exactly the pattern of the Tabernacle again, a 3 court pattern. Peace
I'm saying a spiritual principle is contained therein. The Torah/law and the prophets was spoken by G-d. G-d speaking is the same as creating. It's not a coincidence that the first letter of the Torah is bet which is used for "house". The very letters are like houses for some aspect of His Spirit which is Truth. Truth is not an abstract principle based on observable facts, it's a person, the person of the Spirit Seed Son of G-d. This is why when He arose He opened up the Torah/law and prophets and expounded to the two on the road, everything that pertained to Him, which was EVERYTHING in there. It's as the bones, that the Spirit Seed Son's celestial flesh hangs upon. Without bones, a body cannot stand upright (resurrect; stand upright).
Christians want the flesh, but not the bones. The Pharisees wanted the bones, but not the flesh, but it takes both to stand upright/resurrect up out of the grave of our body He is currently buried in. The Pharisees, for this reason were described as dead men's bones, because they failed to "enter the house" because they didn't knock. And so we are told to knock and it shall be opened to us. Same principle as striking the rock and the water of life came out, and same reason why the blood is manufactured in the bones, ie. comes out of the bones. THAT MEANS EVERY ONE OF THOSE "BONES" HAS LIFE IN IT.
What is opened is the Torah/law and the prophets that the risen One opened up to the two on the road. This is why it is said if they will not hear Moses and the prophets (Torah and prophets) then neither will they hear though one be raised from the dead, because the Torah and the prophets CONTAIN the One that be risen from the dead, as a house contains it's occupant. And so, it's equally true that the Spirit Seed Son was the Torah made (celestial) flesh. The Torah was ALWAYS in the heart of the Father, and we are told that G-d the Father was IN CHRIST/Spirit Seed Son, reconciling all men unto Himself. What you see here then, is the Torah/Seed Son/Father, exactly the pattern of the Tabernacle again, a 3 court pattern. Peace
We may disagree on the interpretation of what is said in the scriptures but We seem to agree on the purpose of Gods plan.
When God created the heaven and earth after the 7 days we were told it was before everything was in the field. I believe that man is being created in the image of a God, spirit overcoming flesh, good over evil.
It is a process, Christ was the light spoken by God. I agree that God does speak things into being but also he communicates with us. When God communicates to us through the scriptures it needed to be in a basic language we can understand, and it is through his prophets however there is not just the basic explanation there, if you search you find the coded messages. He has a spiritual law, and he communicated it to Moses in a way that would be understood and it pointed to The spiritual.
So this is where I disagree with you that you think the basic explanation of the Torah is the real thing where I believe it was to point to and lead us to Christ. I can agree that Christ is the Torah, but not the written Torah.
The 7 day weekly sabbath points to the 7th day of creation which is Christs/Messiahs 1000 year reign.
How I see it is humans can get things mixed up and take analogies too far, in the scriptures there are lots of analogies and parables that explain things.
This is where fables come from like eternal torment, trinity, satan as an angel that sinned come from, the explanation or parable is taken as the real thing.
An example of what I mean is you have a child and the plan is for him to go to university, in his first year you give him books and say keep them, learn from them, when he gets to the next level he needs to give up those books and progress to the next level, if he tries to hold onto just those books he will never get to university.
We may disagree on the interpretation of what is said in the scriptures but We seem to agree on the purpose of Gods plan.
When God created the heaven and earth after the 7 days we were told it was before everything was in the field. I believe that man is being created in the image of a God, spirit overcoming flesh, good over evil.
It is a process, Christ was the light spoken by God. I agree that God does speak things into being but also he communicates with us. When God communicates to us through the scriptures it needed to be in a basic language we can understand, and it is through his prophets however there is not just the basic explanation there, if you search you find the coded messages. He has a spiritual law, and he communicated it to Moses in a way that would be understood and it pointed to The spiritual.
So this is where I disagree with you that you think the basic explanation of the Torah is the real thing where I believe it was to point to and lead us to Christ. I can agree that Christ is the Torah, but not the written Torah.
The 7 day weekly sabbath points to the 7th day of creation which is Christs/Messiahs 1000 year reign.
How I see it is humans can get things mixed up and take analogies too far, in the scriptures there are lots of analogies and parables that explain things.
This is where fables come from like eternal torment, trinity, satan as an angel that sinned come from, the explanation or parable is taken as the real thing.
An example of what I mean is you have a child and the plan is for him to go to university, in his first year you give him books and say keep them, learn from them, when he gets to the next level he needs to give up those books and progress to the next level, if he tries to hold onto just those books he will never get to university.
Hi Meercat...some thoughts here to consider. G-d deposited within Moses the SPIRITUAL impartation. What came out, was Moses expressing what was Spirit, into words. The same thing happened to the writers of the NT and happens to us, if we are being taught of the Lord. A thought comes in, in a split second, WITH the understanding, the depth of which is usually staggering, and then we attempt to break it down into degrees of understanding so what was instantaneously imparted, can be communicated within the limitations of human language.
The only significant difference is that the Hebrew, coming from Him, has at it's core, parts of Him so it's like pieces of a puzzle of different "breaths" that formed a whole, the different combinations of which have the inherent power of being able to create (because Christ IS a healer). This is why in churches where, lets say, healing is taught with appropriate scriptures, healings manifest. The Spirit always comes to perform the word, which is precisely why He appeared by NT time.
The 7th day IS Christ, specifically the Christ formed (represented as the veil in the Tabernacle formed by eating of the showbread in the light of the candlestick) in the 12 tribe heads whose Light had not yet come (12 hours of darkness/soul), and in the 12 disciples (12 hours of light/spirit) whose Light had come. It is a day of no part darkness, not because there was no darkness, but because the darkness was covered over (like husband is a woman's covering, the spirit is the soul's covering), just as the mercy seat covered over the tablets of the law that ministered death to the hearer, particularly if uncovered, as some found out. Additionally, the 7th day is actually a planned "crop failure" because only the one Seed is going to be raised up, which is when seedtime and harvest WILL cease, in a people He is not ashamed to call brethren. So too, will there be no more need for the light of the sun or the moon, because the glory of G-d will fill the temple.
This IS the rest (the HG does the works, the works being to form these natures into us, a perfect man, making of the TWAIN into one new man) we are to enter into, and this is why the priests (I would that they were ALL priests) were commanded to eat the showbread in the light of the candlestick. THIS is His body, which was broken for you, and like it or not, it includes those under the Torah and the prophets, WHICH IS EVERYONE, whether they realize it or not.
The casting off of the Tabernacle pattern as a witness, and the rejection of the HG which is our teacher, and the impersonal way the written word is treated (it is written to ALL OF US, a PERSONAL word) is what led to the heresies and errors. Peace
Hi Meercat...some thoughts here to consider. G-d deposited within Moses the SPIRITUAL impartation. What came out, was Moses expressing what was Spirit, into words. The same thing happened to the writers of the NT and happens to us, if we are being taught of the Lord. A thought comes in, in a split second, WITH the understanding, the depth of which is usually staggering, and then we attempt to break it down into degrees of understanding so what was instantaneously imparted, can be communicated within the limitations of human language. The only significant difference is that the Hebrew coming from Him, has at it's core, parts of Him so it's like pieces of a puzzle of different "breaths" that formed a whole.
The 7th day IS Christ, specifically the Christ formed in the 12 tribe heads whose Light had not yet come (12 hours of darkness/soul), and in the 12 disciples (12 hours of light/spirit) whose Light had come. It is a day of no part darkness, not because there was no darkness, but because the darkness was covered over (like husband is a woman's covering, the spirit is the soul's covering), just as the mercy seat covered over the tablets of the law that ministered death to the hearer, particularly if uncovered, as some found out.
This IS the rest (the HG does the works, the works being to form these natures into us, a perfect man, making of the TWAIN into one new man) we are to enter into, and this is why the priests (I would that they were ALL priests) were commanded to eat the showbread in the light of the candlestick. THIS is His body, which was broken for you, and like it or not, it includes those under the Torah and the prophets, WHICH IS EVERYONE, whether they realize it or not.
The casting off of the Tabernacle pattern as a witness, and the rejection of the HG which is our teacher, and the impersonal way the written word is treated (it is written to ALL OF US, a PERSONAL word) is what led to the heresies and errors. Peace
I have no disagreement with the spirit of God being in us on a personal level, however I also see national prophecies both in the Old and new. Yes, to the kingdom of priests.
Just as the individual needs to grow up and mature through law and judgement so do the nations
Individuals go through Jesus baptism not being dunked in water, but by the spirit overcoming the flesh
The kingdom is still split at present and God will unite it, with the new covenant.
I guess where my understanding at the moment is that it is about God and his plan which he reveals to us as we are able to understand it and that not all prophecy is about the individual.
With your reference to the the perfect MAN and the twain becoming one I believe it is about the 2 houses being made 1 in Christ, it is not about the scriptures being made one or individuals being made one, it is about the house of Judah and the house of Ephraim not fighting anymore ....... both coming to Christ and being made one
Eph 2:11 Because of this, remember that you, the nations, were then in the flesh (those having been called Uncircumcision by those having been called Circumcision in the flesh made by hands)
Eph 2:12 that at that time you were without Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers of the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
Eph 2:13 But now, in Christ Jesus you who then were afar off, came to be near by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For He is our peace, He making us both one, and breaking down the middle wall of partition,
Eph 2:15 in His flesh causing to cease the enmity, the Law of the commandments in decrees, that He might in Himself create the two into one new man, making peace,
Eph 2:16 and might reconcile both in one body to God through the cross, slaying the enmity in Himself.
Eph 2:17 And coming, He proclaimed "peace to you, the ones afar off, and to the ones near." Isa. 57:19
Eph 2:18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
Eph 2:19 So, then, you are no longer strangers and tenants, but you are fellow citizens of the saints and of the family of God,
Eph 2:20 being built up on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the cornerstone,
Eph 2:21 in whom all the building being fitted together grows into a holy temple in the Lord,
The house of Israel/Ephraim was scattered amongst the nations, but a God said he wouldn't forget them ... in the latter days they would be gathered
Jesus came to join the 2 together, a lot of Christians seem to think he was giving individual salvation ie going to heaven but what I understand is the kingdom of God is about this kingdom of priests being on earth..... Christ rules on earth in the priests
I have no disagreement with the spirit of God being in us on a personal level, however I also see national prophecies both in the Old and new. Yes, to the kingdom of priests.
Just as the individual needs to grow up and mature through law and judgement so do the nations
Individuals go through Jesus baptism not being dunked in water, but by the spirit overcoming the flesh
The kingdom is still split at present and God will unite it, with the new covenant.
I guess where my understanding at the moment is that it is about God and his plan which he reveals to us as we are able to understand it and that not all prophecy is about the individual.
With your reference to the the perfect MAN and the twain becoming one I believe it is about the 2 houses being made 1 in Christ, it is not about the scriptures being made one or individuals being made one, it is about the house of Judah and the house of Ephraim not fighting anymore ....... both coming to Christ and being made one
Eph 2:11 Because of this, remember that you, the nations, were then in the flesh (those having been called Uncircumcision by those having been called Circumcision in the flesh made by hands)
Eph 2:12 that at that time you were without Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers of the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
Eph 2:13 But now, in Christ Jesus you who then were afar off, came to be near by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For He is our peace, He making us both one, and breaking down the middle wall of partition,
Eph 2:15 in His flesh causing to cease the enmity, the Law of the commandments in decrees, that He might in Himself create the two into one new man, making peace,
Eph 2:16 and might reconcile both in one body to God through the cross, slaying the enmity in Himself.
Eph 2:17 And coming, He proclaimed "peace to you, the ones afar off, and to the ones near." Isa. 57:19
Eph 2:18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
Eph 2:19 So, then, you are no longer strangers and tenants, but you are fellow citizens of the saints and of the family of God,
Eph 2:20 being built up on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the cornerstone,
Eph 2:21 in whom all the building being fitted together grows into a holy temple in the Lord,
The house of Israel/Ephraim was scattered amongst the nations, but a God said he wouldn't forget them ... in the latter days they would be gathered
Jesus came to join the 2 together, a lot of Christians seem to think he was giving individual salvation ie going to heaven but what I understand is the kingdom of God is about this kingdom of priests being on earth..... Christ rules on earth in the priests
There is a microcosm view (personal) and a macrocosm view (outward/multiple). The macrocosm is not going to be fulfilled until the microcosm view has been fulfilled in a people, for the simple reason that the head must be raised up first. In every major move of G-d He always begins with a firstfruits, and this is no exception.
Most Christians have it backwards, in that they are looking OUT THERE for something to happen first, but by the time it does, it will have been missed within by those that would have wanted to be firstfruits. This is why Hanni and I keep stressing you must know the feasts inside and out and the Torah to know what is going on INSIDE OF YOU. And I can witness to the fact for what it's worth to anyone, that the Torah feasts are being fulfilled spiritually in me. Peace
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
