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That is a person who has converted to Christianity. I suppose if he was born a Jew, some may still call him a Jew, but he don't look like no Jew to me.
Dr. Fruchtenbaum is an ethnic or racial Jew born to Jewish parents. He is also a Messianic Jew.
I do say so. A racial Jew is someone who is descended from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. A religious Jew on the other hand is someone who simply converts to Judaism. Dr. Fruchtenbaum is a racial Jew.
I do say so. A racial Jew is someone who is descended from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. A religious Jew on the other hand is someone who simply converts to Judaism. Dr. Fruchtenbaum is a racial Jew.
Yeah, if you say so, and there maybe many Jews even in the Judaism forum who may agree with you, but my opinion is that when a Jew converts to Christianity, he stops being a Jew in my opinion.
Yeah, if you say so, and there maybe many Jews even in the Judaism forum who may agree with you, but my opinion is that when a Jew converts to Christianity, he stops being a Jew in my opinion.
Your opinion is not the basis for reality. A racial Jew does not stop being a racial Jew simply because he does not hold to religion of Judaism. One can be a Jew and be an atheist. If a person is born a racial Jew he remains a racial Jew regardless of his religious stance.
And with that, I am done with this. This thread has gone off topic.
What I said is senseless is allegorizing things which are not meant to be allegorized which is what you are doing.
And anyone can claim that the Spirit has revealed something to them and self righteously claim that those who disagree with them do not have the Spirit.
As for the 24 elders, there are various views concerning who they are. Some think they are angels. Others think that they are men who represent both Israel and the church. Others, including myself think the 24 elders represent the resurrected church. It is extremely unlikely that Israel is represented by the elders since Israelites will not be resurrected until after the Tribulation. More likely, the 24 elders represent the resurrected church.
Heaven is a place. It is a place where at this moment, Jesus in resurrected body is seated at the right hand of the Father. Heaven is a place where Paul was caught up to as described in 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 where he heard things he was not permitted to speak of. Heaven is a place where in John's vision he, as I've already stated, saw the 24 elders, and the great multitude of Tribulational martyrs.
Heaven and the kingdom of heaven are not the same thing. Heaven, that is, the third heaven as Paul described it, is indeed a place. The kingdom of heaven, or the kingdom of God has different aspects. In one sense, the kingdom of God refers to God's rule over all of creation. In another sense it refers to the future political, geographical kingdom which Jesus will set up on the earth after His return. It is that political, geographical kingdom that Jesus offered to Israel during his first advent, but was postponed when they rejected Him as the Messiah.
The book of Revelation can not be understood if one denies the literalness that underlies the symbolic language which is used to describe the literal events. And yes, as with all scripture, one should study the book of Revelation under the filling of the Spirit. But all too many people claim that they have the Spirit and anyone with contrary views to theirs does not have the Spirit. The fact of the matter is that many good Spirit filled, and academically prepared theologians still disagree with each other over certain points of doctrine.
To rightly divide the word of truth, to accurately interpret the Scriptures requires more than being filled with the Spirit. It requires among other things, knowing how to properly interpret Scripture. Knowing the different genres of the Bible. Having an understanding of the time and culture in which the Bible was written. Understanding that the Bible is to be interpreted literally when the context is plainly intended to be taken literally, and only when the context obviously is not literal, to understand it in a non-literal sense. Etc.
People who assert that their interpretation is correct because they claim that God told them so have no credibility.
I never said you don't have the Spirit Mike, you are putting words in my mouth, which seems to be a favorite pastime around here. I said the Spirit must teach you.
When Jesus spoke to Nicodemus, He was basically saying I'm in heaven, but I'm standing here talking to you right now. Paul said our conversation is IN HEAVEN. You can't speak from a place you've never been before.
Then I guess the disciples and Jesus have no credibility because they all said the Spirit told them things, and Jesus witnessed for Peter that G-d had revealed something to Peter. As for knowing HOW to properly interpret scripture, I trust the Holy Spirit who wrote knows how to interpret it. Peace
Our church is Pre-Trib, but I'm more than aware that others fall in the other categories and have their own scriptures to back that up.
I don't believe it is an issue that should separate Christians. Christianity is about Jesus Christ. Time will eventually show us the truth of how the tribulation will go down.
cd :O)
Christianity is supposed to be about Jesus. Yet I share 6 super important teachings of his with Trinitarians and they outright refuse to believe him over their teachers dogmas. Why? all 6 teachings exist in every translation on earth.
Your opinion is not the basis for reality. A racial Jew does not stop being a racial Jew simply because he does not hold to religion of Judaism. One can be a Jew and be an atheist. If a person is born a racial Jew he remains a racial Jew regardless of his religious stance.
And with that, I am done with this. This thread has gone off topic.
I suppose your right, but that Jew you are listening to is still putting you in the outer court of Gentiles because he believes all those tribes listed in Revelation are Jews alone when they are not all just Jew, they are Jews and Christians and EVERY ONE in history who has become a coheir with Jews under the inheritance if Israel, and your Jew takes you right out of that inheritance.
I suppose your right, but that Jew you are listening to is still putting you in the outer court of Gentiles because he believes all those tribes listed in Revelation are Jews alone when they are not all just Jew, they are Jews and Christians and EVERY ONE in history who has become a coheir with Jews under the inheritance if Israel, and your Jew takes you right out of that inheritance.
None of the 144,000 are Christians. They are all Jews from the 12 tribes of Israel that are listed. The church, that is, all Christians, are raptured into heaven before the Tribulation ever begins and are not a part of the 144,000 Jews.
And the only person putting anyone into the outer court of Gentiles is you. You can't seem to understand that in the church-age there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile in the body of Christ. The Holy of holies is open to all who in the body of Christ. The tearing of the veil in the temple when Jesus died signifies that fact.
You are the one who insists on making a distinction between Jew and Gentile that does not exist in this dispensation for those who have believed in Christ Jesus.
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