Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This is a favourite saying of Hanni which seems very incorrect to me
With his obsession with trying to get Christianity to come into line with and under Judaism he seen to be saying that Judaism is like the Father and Christianity is like the Son
If you see this Hanni can you explain where you get this from please... is it from a specific website, from various websites or is this what you have thought out for yourself?
While it's true that the first Christians were Jews, and that at first Christianity was legally recognized by Rome as a sect of Judaism (that didn't last), Christianity is not Judaism and never was. Before the end of the first century A.D. it was the Jews who put Jewish Christians out of the synagogues. Judaism does not accept Jesus as the Messiah while the first Jewish Christians did. Christianity or the Church, consisting of both Jewish and Gentile believers is a new creation according to Paul in 2 Corinthians 5:17.
2 Cor. 5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
While Paul had no problem with Jewish Christians retaining their Jewish customs, he had a very big problem with Gentile believers wanting to adopt Jewish practices and asked them why they wanted to enslave themselves to them. Under the influence of the Judaizers the Galatians had begun to observe Jewish days, months, seasons and years according to Galatians chapter 4. Then in Galatians chapter 5 Paul tells them that if they receive circumcision Christ will be of no benefit to them. In Acts chapter 15 the council at Jerusalem addressed the problem of the Judaizers promoting the idea that to be saved, Gentile believers had to be circumcised according to the custom of Moses.
So no, Christianity does not have to, and was never supposed to come into line with and under Judaism.
While it's true that the first Christians were Jews, and that at first Christianity was legally recognized by Rome as a sect of Judaism (that didn't last), Christianity is not Judaism and never was. Before the end of the first century A.D. it was the Jews who put Jewish Christians out of the synagogues. Judaism does not accept Jesus as the Messiah while the first Jewish Christians did. Christianity or the Church, consisting of both Jewish and Gentile believers is a new creation according to Paul in 2 Corinthians 5:17.
2 Cor. 5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
While Paul had no problem with Jewish Christians retaining their Jewish customs, he had a very big problem with Gentile believers wanting to adopt Jewish practices and asked them why they wanted to enslave themselves to them. Under the influence of the Judaizers the Galatians had begun to observe Jewish days, months, seasons and years according to Galatians chapter 4. Then in Galatians chapter 5 Paul tells them that if they receive circumcision Christ will be of no benefit to them. In Acts chapter 15 the council at Jerusalem addressed the problem of the Judaizers promoting the idea that to be saved, Gentile believers had to be circumcised according to the custom of Moses.
So no, Christianity does not have to, and was never supposed to come into line with and under Judaism.
MQ, you mean that Mike and me have different perspectives about the context of the scriptures?
I agree with Mike about the essential doctrines related to what Christianity is, when abouts it started, and the superiority of Christ as not being subservient to Judaism - that is the context of my agreement with him .... that there are ‘historical’ ‘divine’ things that we have received which are symbolic does not change that the early church Fathers, disciples, etc wrote about about Jesus Christ as Lord and I do not discount the gospels, or Paul’s writings, or the other NT letters.
It does have Jewish roots, but is not in my opinion a Jewish ‘sect’.
I am open to thinking about things, however I do have quite a few beliefs which I picked up from early religious exposure
While it is true that the earliest Christians continued to follow the practices of Judaism, the idea that it was a requirement was the subject of the first council of the church in Jerusalem, where it was realized that following Christ was not ABOUT "religion," but about a new paradigm for community with God and man based on a commitment to the well-being of everyone in any situation that IS "agape."
MQ, you mean that Mike and me have different perspectives about the context of the scriptures?
I agree with Mike about the essential doctrines related to what Christianity is, when abouts it started, and the superiority of Christ as not being subservient to Judaism - that is the context of my agreement with him .... that there are ‘historical’ ‘divine’ things that we have received which are symbolic does not change that the early church Fathers, disciples, etc wrote about about Jesus Christ as Lord and I do not discount the gospels, or Paul’s writings, or the other NT letters.
It does have Jewish roots, but is not in my opinion a Jewish ‘sect’.
I am open to thinking about things, however I do have quite a few beliefs which I picked up from early religious exposure
Lol, I was referring to you asking Hanni what he meant, for fear he might answer you.
While it's true that the first Christians were Jews, and that at first Christianity was legally recognized by Rome as a sect of Judaism (that didn't last), Christianity is not Judaism and never was. Before the end of the first century A.D. it was the Jews who put Jewish Christians out of the synagogues. Judaism does not accept Jesus as the Messiah while the first Jewish Christians did. Christianity or the Church, consisting of both Jewish and Gentile believers is a new creation according to Paul in 2 Corinthians 5:17.
2 Cor. 5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
While Paul had no problem with Jewish Christians retaining their Jewish customs, he had a very big problem with Gentile believers wanting to adopt Jewish practices and asked them why they wanted to enslave themselves to them. Under the influence of the Judaizers the Galatians had begun to observe Jewish days, months, seasons and years according to Galatians chapter 4. Then in Galatians chapter 5 Paul tells them that if they receive circumcision Christ will be of no benefit to them. In Acts chapter 15 the council at Jerusalem addressed the problem of the Judaizers promoting the idea that to be saved, Gentile believers had to be circumcised according to the custom of Moses.
So no, Christianity does not have to, and was never supposed to come into line with and under Judaism.
According to what is written in your NT, they were...
According to what is written in your NT, they were...
I believe the religions themselves are equal, brothers
The Lord is over both
Heb 8:6 But now He has gotten a more excellent ministry, also by so much as He is a Mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first was faultless, place would not have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault, He said to them, "Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, and I will make an end on the house of Israel and on the house of Judah; a new covenant shall be,
Heb 8:9 not according to the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day of My taking hold of their hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I did not regard them, says the Lord.
Heb 8:10 Because this is the covenant which I will covenant with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord, giving My Laws into their mind, and I will write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."
Heb 8:11 "And they shall no more teach each one their neighbor, and each one his brother, saying, Know the Lord; because all shall know Me, from the least of them to their great ones.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousnesses, and I will not at all remember their sins and their lawless deeds." LXX-Jer. 38:31-34; MT-Jer. 31:31-34
Heb 8:13 In the saying, New, He has made the first old. And the thing being made old and growing aged is near disappearing.
Last edited by Meerkat2; 03-12-2020 at 04:15 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
