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Old 09-08-2021, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,442 posts, read 12,793,000 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenWhiteBlue View Post
It amazes me that people who claim to be "Bible believers" will tie themselves into knots with strange interpretations of Paul or the Old Testament prophets, but never seem to look at the four gospels, or pay attention to the direct words of Jesus Christ himself.

Jesus answers this question for us in Matthew chapter 25, verses 31 to 46:
"When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left.

Then the King will say to those at his right hand, `Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.' Then the righteous will answer him, `Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?' And the King will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.'

Then he will say to those at his left hand, `Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' Then they also will answer, `Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?' Then he will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.' And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."



Also note the words of Jesus in Matthew 7:21: "Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

It is therefore very clear from the words of Jesus himself that those who claim to have faith, and who say "Lord, Lord", but who do nothing to show their faith in their lives are clearly not as saved (or safe...) as they think they are.
The “something” we have to do is believe.

John 6:40
“For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
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Old 09-08-2021, 03:47 PM
 
Location: TEXAS
3,830 posts, read 1,384,422 times
Reputation: 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vf6cruiser View Post
Without quoting James what is the collective opinion.......saved or lost?
Who are we to say whether any are lost to God?
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Old 09-08-2021, 06:47 PM
 
8,039 posts, read 1,844,542 times
Reputation: 143
I think that the answer to the question of the OP can be found in the following scripture.

Rom 4:1, What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2, For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3, For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4, Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5, But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6, Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8, Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
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Old 09-08-2021, 06:51 PM
 
8,039 posts, read 1,844,542 times
Reputation: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenWhiteBlue View Post
It amazes me that people who claim to be "Bible believers" will tie themselves into knots with strange interpretations of Paul or the Old Testament prophets, but never seem to look at the four gospels, or pay attention to the direct words of Jesus Christ himself.

Jesus answers this question for us in Matthew chapter 25, verses 31 to 46:
"When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left.

Then the King will say to those at his right hand, `Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.' Then the righteous will answer him, `Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?' And the King will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.'

Then he will say to those at his left hand, `Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' Then they also will answer, `Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?' Then he will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.' And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."



Also note the words of Jesus in Matthew 7:21: "Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

It is therefore very clear from the words of Jesus himself that those who claim to have faith, and who say "Lord, Lord", but who do nothing to show their faith in their lives are clearly not as saved (or safe...) as they think they are.
Tit 3:3, For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
Tit 3:4, But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6, Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7, That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
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Old 09-08-2021, 06:56 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
28,098 posts, read 29,970,289 times
Reputation: 13123
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post
I think that the answer to the question of the OP can be found in the following scripture.

Rom 4:1, What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2, For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3, For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4, Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5, But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6, Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8, Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
How do you see "faith without works is dead" as figuring into the equation?
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Old 09-08-2021, 07:03 PM
 
8,039 posts, read 1,844,542 times
Reputation: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
How do you see "faith without works is dead" as figuring into the equation?
That is a good question, thanks for asking it.

We are forgiven of our sins, solely through faith in the blood of Christ; and this will regenerate and renew us in the Holy Ghost. It is not by works of righteousness which we have done that this regeneration and renewing takes place.

But if we have been regenerated and renewed, we are inclined towards the good works that are spoken of, specifically Matthew 25; because the love of the Lord has been shed abroad in our hearts (Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5).

If we never have the opportunity to perform a good work as it is spoken of in Matthew 25, then, I believe that Jesus counts our changed heart as being the same as if we had actually done what our changed heart would have motivated us to do had we been given the opportunity.

Last edited by justbyfaith; 09-08-2021 at 07:23 PM..
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Old 09-08-2021, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
28,098 posts, read 29,970,289 times
Reputation: 13123
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post
That is a good question, thanks for asking it.

We are forgiven of our sins, solely through faith in the blood of Christ; and this will regenerate and renew us in the Holy Ghost. It is not by works of righteousness which we have done that this regeneration and renewing takes place.

But if we have been regenerated and renewed, we are inclined towards the good works that are spoken of, specifically Matthew 25; because the love of the Lord has been shed abroad in our hearts (Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5).

If we never have the opportunity to perform a good work as it is spoken of in Matthew 25, then, I believe that Jesus counts our changed heart as being the same as if we had actually done what our changed heart would have motivated us to do had we been given the opportunity.
Fair enough, although I can't imagine very many people never having had the opportunity to perform a good work.
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Old 09-08-2021, 09:06 PM
 
4,345 posts, read 2,166,420 times
Reputation: 3398
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Define "do another thing".

Do they live like the devil?

The fruit inspection would probably reveal whether their faith was legit or not.
Ah yes this will bring out the fruit inspectors.......
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Old 09-08-2021, 09:07 PM
 
4,345 posts, read 2,166,420 times
Reputation: 3398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way View Post
Saved. He simply will have had a non-productive spiritual life and will lose out on eternal rewards at the judgment seat of Christ.
Too easy for you......
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Old 09-08-2021, 09:08 PM
 
4,345 posts, read 2,166,420 times
Reputation: 3398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightfame52 View Post
Sometimes the works following Salvation by Grace are inward and not noticeable by man, but God sees them.
I tend to agree.......
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