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It would probably depend on the type of institution and its purpose, and how well it is living up to that
Not my place to judge, above my pay grade
I was just wondering if this was a branches/vine thing or something. I see my former group as blocking God and setting themselves in His place. What do you think when you hear former members say that there is something bad going on when they leave a group?
Since the wicked are 'destroyed forever ' - Psalms 92:7; 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22 - then there is Not eternal burning.
Good one about a ' h*ll of a time ' however remember the Bible's hell has No flames.
Biblical hell is just mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead ( No pain in death )
Jesus was well educated in the OT and both teach: the dead are Not conscious just sleeping.
- Psalm 6:5; Psalm 13:3; Psalm 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5 and Jesus' words at John 11;11-14
With all due respect to the scribes, they were transcribing other people's interpretations of a realm that often escapes description by those who have been there and returned. (OR they were reporting the assumptions of their "wise men" who pontificated on the subject.)
Imagine a scriptural description of a 21st century metal oxide silicon field effect transistor made by diffusing one element into another, creating a PN junction, and the etching of a self aligning polysilicon gate - and so small that millions would fit on the head of a pin, used to make unimaginably fast "computing engines" that do arithmetic, paint images, let us communicate over vast distances... and other "miraculous" functions.
- - - Oy Veh! - - -
Can we simply forgive parochial scribes for their erroneous interpretations of non-material existence and non-sequential awareness of a non-dimensional timeless now?
- - - - - -
Report from one who went "there" and back.... https://youtu.be/h6WRVr55H3A?t=2816
Fear is one of the - if not THE - greatest tactic known in which to to control the masses. Christianity has used - and still uses - this method of control most effectively.
By the way, one of the most well-known verses in the Bible is John 3:16. We're told in this scripture that those who believe in Jesus Christ will not perish but have everlasting life. The term 'perish' strongly suggests 'annihilation', does it not? The scripture also makes the distinction between those that believe (everlasting life) and those that don't believe (everlasting death).
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
Matthew 25:46
And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
I see no hint of the Greek term “kolasis” for our English word “punishment” suggesting annihilation. Here is the definition of “punishment” according to Strong’s.
◄ 2851. kolasis ►
Strong's Concordance
kolasis: correction
Original Word: κόλασις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: kolasis
Phonetic Spelling: (kol'-as-is)
Definition: correction
Usage: chastisement, punishment, torment, perhaps with the idea of deprivation.
The passage clearly shows both life and punishment lasting eternally.
Yep. It would appear that for some (biblically speaking) life eternal comes after their earthly existence while for others (biblically speaking) eternal punishment comes after THEIR earthly existence. But, please listen up . . .the consequences of 'punishment' for 'the unsaved' is eternal but the actual 'punishing' (i.e. annihilation) is finite. See the difference?
Anyway, be that as it may . . .here is what you do in cases like this, folks. You use logic. You ask yourselves, "What POSSIBLE PURPOSE could come out of punishing anyone for an eternity?" The answer is, "Zilch!" It would serve NO PURPOSE AT ALL!! Even OUR flawed judicial system is set up with the intent of achieving a positive result. God's system, believed by most of Christianity, is useless in EVERY WAY!
Some Supreme Being!!
This is not to mention that a touted Supreme Being would never - COULD NEVER! - resort to inflicting such a POINTLESS PENALTY on a mere mortal simply because "they didn't believe"!! I don't believe in such a monster! Moreover, those of you who DO believe in such a monster need to rethink your position and allow your God-given brain to take precedence in topics such as this one.
Yes ...THIS is what you do. You use common sense reasoning folks! Forget about the various definitions of a specific Hebrew or a Greek word given by your Bible Concordance. You'll invariably opt for the definition given that suits your cherished belief anyway.
Y'know, one of the most puzzling things that I ran into when associating with Christians was the lack of intelligent reasoning from many of them when it came to some of their beliefs ...even though they appeared to be generally intelligent. What is it that possesses their brains when it comes to topics like this one? It's actually quite disturbing to be around those who not only justify (but also do so without any qualms) a God who they claim to worship but also one who is ready to inflict eternal pain on their family and friends.
By the way, I believe that the Holy Spirit led me to say all of the ^.
Yep. It would appear that for some (biblically speaking) life eternal comes after their earthly existence while for others (biblically speaking) eternal punishment comes after THEIR earthly existence. But, please listen up . . .the consequences of 'punishment' for 'the unsaved' is eternal but the actual 'punishing' (i.e. annihilation) is finite. See the difference?
Anyway, be that as it may . . .here is what you do in cases like this, folks. You use logic. You ask yourselves, "What POSSIBLE PURPOSE could come out of punishing anyone for an eternity?" The answer is, "Zilch!" It would serve NO PURPOSE AT ALL!! Even OUR flawed judicial system is set up with the intent of achieving a positive result. God's system, believed by most of Christianity, is useless in EVERY WAY!
Some Supreme Being!!
This is not to mention that a touted Supreme Being would never - COULD NEVER! - resort to inflicting such a POINTLESS PENALTY on a mere mortal simply because "they didn't believe"!! I don't believe in such a monster! Moreover, those of you who DO believe in such a monster need to rethink your position and allow your God-given brain to take precedence in topics such as this one.
Yes ...THIS is what you do. You use common sense reasoning folks! Forget about the various definitions of a specific Hebrew or a Greek word given by your Bible Concordance. You'll invariably opt for the definition given that suits your cherished belief anyway.
Y'know, one of the most puzzling things that I ran into when associating with Christians was the lack of intelligent reasoning from many of them when it came to some of their beliefs ...even though they appeared to be generally intelligent. What is it that possesses their brains when it comes to topics like this one? It's actually quite disturbing to be around those who not only justify (but also do so without any qualms) a God who they claim to worship but also one who is ready to inflict eternal pain on their family and friends.
By the way, I believe that the Holy Spirit led me to say all of the ^.
Ignoring the original language of the Scriptures in favor of your own reasoning says it all. Face it. You cannot refute the meaning of “kolasis,” so you mock one of the world’s most renowned Greek scholars instead. Then you claim the Holy Spirit led you. SMH. Since “kolasis” is a God breathed word, how is it you can claim the Holy Spirit is leading you since you deny a word He used??
If you can find any Greek lexicon that shows “kolasis” to mean something different than Strong’s, then by all means post it. Every Greek lexicon I’ve come across defines “kolasis” in both instances as having the same meaning. Every Greek manuscript uses the word twice in in Matthew 26:46 , once to describe punishment and once to describe life.
“And these will go away into eternal punishment; but the righteous into eternal life.” (Matthew 25:46)
Jesus said that both punishment and life are eternal. That blows “annihilation” out of the water!
God, in Scripture, is said to annihilate people physically from the earth, but NOT ONCE does He say He would annihilate them in the spiritual sense. If you know of a Scripture that says He does, then by all means post it.
Your entire argument is based on your own reasoning and not on what the word of God actually says.
Last edited by MissKate12; 07-10-2022 at 04:47 AM..
I was just wondering if this was a branches/vine thing or something. I see my former group as blocking God and setting themselves in His place. What do you think when you hear former members say that there is something bad going on when they leave a group?
Yes, in my opinion there is a relationship between the denominations of Christianity and the branches/vine
I left the Pentecostal church so long ago but even then I did not have resentment to the actual people in the group, it was more the disconnect between who God/Jesus was portrayed/thought to be which did not gel with what I read and what I internally thought about it
There seems to be a struggle that happens between honouring father/mother and leaving father/mother and a lot of resentment gets built up on both sides
Ignoring the original language of the Scriptures in favor of your own reasoning says it all. Face it. You cannot refute the meaning of “kolasis,” so you mock one of the world’s most renowned Greek scholars instead. Then you claim the Holy Spirit led you. SMH. Since “kolasis” is a God breathed word, how is it you can claim the Holy Spirit is leading you since you deny a word He used??
If you can find any Greek lexicon that shows “kolasis” to mean something different than Strong’s, then by all means post it. Every Greek lexicon I’ve come across defines “kolasis” in both instances as having the same meaning. Every Greek manuscript uses the word twice in in Matthew 26:46 , once to describe punishment and once to describe life.
“And these will go away into eternal punishment; but the righteous into eternal life.” (Matthew 25:46)
Jesus said that both punishment and life are eternal. That blows “annihilation” out of the water!
God, in Scripture, is said to annihilate people physically from the earth, but NOT ONCE does He say He would annihilate them in the spiritual sense. If you know of a Scripture that says He does, then by all means post it.
Your entire argument is based on your own reasoning and not on what the word of God actually says.
I'm not a slave to the Bible, Miss Kate, and ...yes, my entire argument IS based on my own reasoning ability along with the words that I read from the Bible. I make no apologies for this method of Bible interpretation and I certainly don't apologize for not arguing the point with others about what certain ancient words converted to the English language mean. Moreover, as said previously, any Supreme Being that would inflict everlasting torment on anyone is a monster, no ifs, ands and buts. If that offends you then so be it.
By the way, my "I believe that the Holy Spirit led me to say all of the above" was intended tongue-in-cheek, even though it might be true.
I'm not a slave to the Bible, Miss Kate, and ...yes, my entire argument IS based on my own reasoning ability along with the words that I read from the Bible. I make no apologies for this method of Bible interpretation and I certainly don't apologize for not arguing the point with others about what certain ancient words converted to the English language mean. Moreover, as said previously, any Supreme Being that would inflict everlasting torment on anyone is a monster, no ifs, ands and buts. If that offends you then so be it.
By the way, my "I believe that the Holy Spirit led me to say all of the above" was intended tongue-in-cheek, even though it might be true.
A slave to the Bible? If being a slave to the Bible means living by and believing EVERY word that comes out of the mouth of God, I’m guilty.
The problem with your human reasoning is you place it ABOVE the word of God. That certain ancient word you refuse to acknowledge, KOLASIS, which means eternal, is a word which came from the mouth of God. It is in the Ancient Greek manuscripts and has been defined by the world’s greatest Greek scholars. No, the real truth for why you won’t argue what this ancient word means is because it refutes your human reasoning and your belief in annihilation. The bottom line is you have no argument.
Eternal/everlasting is used to describe both punishment and life. If someone is punished eternally, that rules out annihilation.
PS - People who are truly led by the Holy Spirt don’t deny the words He wrote. If and when you’re ready to discuss Matthew 25:46, I’m available. Otherwise, I won’t waste my time.
I was just wondering if this was a branches/vine thing or something. I see my former group as blocking God and setting themselves in His place. What do you think when you hear former members say that there is something bad going on when they leave a group?
I like your question!
Imho, there are various reasons for leaving a group. I left the Catholic Church because I saw teaching that were contrary to God’s word.
However, some folks leave a group when things don’t go their way. They think their way is better. That seems to show a level of spiritual immaturity.
Some leave because they see blatant, in your face sin by a member or members in the congregation being ignored and not being dealt with the way God says to.
There are lots of reasons people leave, some admirable, others not so much.
Yep. It would appear that for some (biblically speaking) life eternal comes after their earthly existence while for others (biblically speaking) eternal punishment comes after THEIR earthly existence. But, please listen up . . .the consequences of 'punishment' for 'the unsaved' is eternal but the actual 'punishing' (i.e. annihilation) is finite. See the difference?
Anyway, be that as it may . . .here is what you do in cases like this, folks. You use logic. You ask yourselves, "What POSSIBLE PURPOSE could come out of punishing anyone for an eternity?" The answer is, "Zilch!" It would serve NO PURPOSE AT ALL!! Even OUR flawed judicial system is set up with the intent of achieving a positive result. God's system, believed by most of Christianity, is useless in EVERY WAY!
Some Supreme Being!!
This is not to mention that a touted Supreme Being would never - COULD NEVER! - resort to inflicting such a POINTLESS PENALTY on a mere mortal simply because "they didn't believe"!! I don't believe in such a monster! Moreover, those of you who DO believe in such a monster need to rethink your position and allow your God-given brain to take precedence in topics such as this one.
Yes ...THIS is what you do. You use common sense reasoning folks! Forget about the various definitions of a specific Hebrew or a Greek word given by your Bible Concordance. You'll invariably opt for the definition given that suits your cherished belief anyway.
Y'know, one of the most puzzling things that I ran into when associating with Christians was the lack of intelligent reasoning from many of them when it came to some of their beliefs ...even though they appeared to be generally intelligent. What is it that possesses their brains when it comes to topics like this one? It's actually quite disturbing to be around those who not only justify (but also do so without any qualms) a God who they claim to worship but also one who is ready to inflict eternal pain on their family and friends.
By the way, I believe that the Holy Spirit led me to say all of the ^.
This is why they are 'christians'. Abandon all logic because the world is so confusing so they confuse who and what God is. A perfect playground for devils (the religious realm). Remember, it was the religious who had an issue with Christ, not the secular folk. As long as the theme of Christianity is believe or burn, the church will remain bound to satan who now has dominion. This is why revival tarries, this is why there are no miracles or great works. The message has been polluted to bad news instead of gospel (good news)
This is why they are 'christians'. Abandon all logic because the world is so confusing so they confuse who and what God is. A perfect playground for devils (the religious realm). Remember, it was the religious who had an issue with Christ, not the secular folk. As long as the theme of Christianity is believe or burn, the church will remain bound to satan who now has dominion. This is why revival tarries, this is why there are no miracles or great works. The message has been polluted to bad news instead of gospel (good news)
Human reasoning is a good thing unless it takes precedence over the word of God. Logic tells me no man could rise from the dead, but God’s word tells me that is precisely what happened. I choose God’s word over my own reasoning and logic.
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This is why they are 'christians'. Abandon all logic because the world is so confusing so they confuse who and what God is. A perfect playground for devils (the religious realm). Remember, it was the religious who had an issue with Christ, not the secular folk. As long as the theme of Christianity is believe or burn, the church will remain bound to satan who now has dominion. This is why revival tarries, this is why there are no miracles or great works. The message has been polluted to bad news instead of gospel (good news)
