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I see the Spirit entering the "soil" of flesh as a seed, germinating into a "plant" (living soul) designed to bear "spiritual fruit," --- "30 fold, 60 fold, 100 fold." (What is the minimum "yield" I wonder.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way
It could certainly be that the spirit is within the soul . . .a subset of the soul but yet distinct from the soul itself. Yeah, I don't know about the being born without a human spirit and being born spiritually dead. That was the teaching I first learned, but who knows!
We are not spiritually dead when we are born. We are "seeded" from God with a Spirit that must "germinate," learn, and grow throughout our lives to mature enough to be "born again" as Spirit as Jesus tried to explain to Nicodemus.
In addition to Hebrews 4:12 which you posted, 1 Thessalonians 5:23 also makes a clear distinction between the body, soul, and spirit which of course means that the soul and the human spirit are not the same thing according to the Bible.
In light of the two NT passages mentioned above, Genesis 2:7 . . .''and man became a living soul (a living being) does not mean that the flesh and the spirit = the soul since the body, soul, and spirit are each distinct from each other.
As I was taught (though I don't know if I still hold to it) man is born body and soul, but without a human spirit (spiritually dead). When a person receives Christ as Savior he is born again and receives a human spirit.
While the soul gives man the ability to relate to his earthly surroundings because the soul contains the mentality, consciousness, conscience, and volition, the human spirit is what allows man to relate to God and to spiritual phenomena.
As I said, this is what I was taught. Whether it is accurate or not, I don't know.
Thanks for your post, Michael, and your honesty. I am in the process of studying this topic for myself. My opinions at this point aren’t set in stone. Like you, I do see soul and spirit as distinct from one another, yet closely related. Hebrews 4:12 distinguishes between soul and spirit just as it does joints and marrow. Each has its own function.
The one place I would disagree with you is that i don’t see the Scriptures saying that we are born spiritually dead. Spiritual death occurs when we sin. Infants are incapable of sinning because they don’t know what sin is.
I was raised in Catholicism, so I was taught the same as you, that we are born spiritually dead. After years of studying the Scriptures for myself, I’ve concluded that is not what the Bible teaches.
Have a blessed Lord’s Day, and thanks again for weighing in.
I am thinking that it’s more like the spirit is within the soul, and the soul is within the body and I agree with you that the soul contains our mentality, consciousness, conscience and volition and there is ability to focus to the higher/spiritual or lower/earthly within certain predetermined boundaries though
It seems to me there is more an overlaying, one on top of the other and connected energetically
I don’t think humans are born just body and soul and spiritually dead
It is more that the religious types are those classed as ‘dead’ and the religious ‘rebirth’ is about leaving the systems and organisations which are law-based and ritualistic and are following the written and indoctrinated type ‘things’
I also see soul and spirit being the inward, immaterial part of man , and the body being the physical and outward part of man.
I do see soul and spirit being closely related. In Scripture, they are sometimes used interchangeably. I do believe each has its own function or purpose, and that’s what I’m focused on in my study. The term spirit is used over 500 times in the Bible. Soul appears more than 450 times. So you can see that a thorough study would take a very long time.
Thanks for your post, Michael, and your honesty. I am in the process of studying this topic for myself. My opinions at this point aren’t set in stone. Like you, I do see soul and spirit as distinct from one another, yet closely related. Hebrews 4:12 distinguishes between soul and spirit just as it does joints and marrow. Each has its own function.
The one place I would disagree with you is that i don’t see the Scriptures saying that we are born spiritually dead. Spiritual death occurs when we sin. Infants are incapable of sinning because they don’t know what sin is.
I was raised in Catholicism, so I was taught the same as you, that we are born spiritually dead. After years of studying the Scriptures for myself, I’ve concluded that is not what the Bible teaches.
Have a blessed Lord’s Day, and thanks again for weighing in.
Kate
While I neglected to mention it, I do not disagree with the idea that spiritual death occurs when we sin rather than when we are born. And I agree that the Bible does not say that spiritual death occurs at birth. I simply was taught that way back when. I no longer hold to certain beliefs that I used to.
Kate, I think it is about the realm or dimension that it belongs to as well as the attachment/connection between the realms
Reading Galatians 5 there is attachment to both the earthly and the spiritual while we live on earth, and the soul is where the 2 realms meet in the middle
Gal 5:16**This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17**For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18**But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:22**But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23**Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24**And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25**If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26**Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
While I neglected to mention it, I do not disagree with the idea that spiritual death occurs when we sin rather than when we are born. And I agree that the Bible does not say that spiritual death occurs at birth. I simply was taught that way back when. I no longer hold to certain beliefs that I used to.
I was taught the same thing, Michael. I was raised in catholicism. I have changed my thinking many times since I was a child. I just keep reading and studying the Scriptures seeking for God’s truth and not man’s.
Kate, I think it is about the realm or dimension that it belongs to as well as the attachment/connection between the realms
Reading Galatians 5 there is attachment to both the earthly and the spiritual while we live on earth, and the soul is where the 2 realms meet in the middle
Gal 5:16**This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17**For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18**But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:22**But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23**Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24**And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25**If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26**Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
Excellent post!
I agree with you. I never thought of it that way, but it makes sense.
Our spirit is where we fellowship with God, where we communicate with Him. It’s where our conscience resides.
Our souls are the seat of our emotions, both the good and bad ones.
The two work very closely together. The Galatians passage fits perfectly! Thanks for sharing! Our spirit must control our souls in order to please God.
Why? The answer given was very relevant to the topic and your question.
The Lake of Fire is all about destroying the Body and Soul, while leaving the Spirit.
It is designed to strip away the Genome from the Spirit since they are linked to one another.
Why? Because it would derail the thread. Its original intent would be obliterated. What happens to the lost at death has been discussed many times on this forum. I understand what you are saying, but I ask that you not take the thread in a different direction. Maybe you could begin a new discussion thread that would broaden the focus?
Last edited by MissKate12; Yesterday at 05:09 AM..
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I see the Spirit entering the "soil" of flesh as a seed, germinating into a "plant" (living soul) designed to bear "spiritual fruit," --- "30 fold, 60 fold, 100 fold." (What is the minimum "yield" I wonder.)
