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How can God bless anyone if you don't believe Jesus is God.
Jesus was without sin and claimed to be God.
Jesus called himself "I AM", God told Moses his name was "I AM"
Jesus was called "Immanuel" - God with us
Jesus called himself "Alpha and Omega", the Father called himself "Alpha and Omega"
God was found to be in the form of a servant. Speaking of his God man relationship Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped" Jesus set aside his glory as God.
This is beyong human comprehension.
I'm truly sorry, but to not believe this truth, is not to believe in Christ's claim....I AM...The Jehovah...God.
I wish it were only in my eyes. But the fact is Jesus is God John 1:1, John 10:33.
He was accused of blasphemy, (John 10:33)
This accusation "blasphemy" was the "crime" he was crucified for.
His name will be called "Immanuel" which means God with us.Matthew 1:23
Christmas has "Immanuel" being born and the cross of Calvary, while Mormons don't celebrate Christmas and are repulsed by the cross, but "we believe in Jesus".
No, you are not Christian. What Mormons believe is a far cry from what the Word teaches us. To believe that you can become god makes you an enemy of Heavenly Father. You will be charged with "blasphemy" someday, like all the others before you. You can beg to differ all you want but to no avail. Outer darkness is your eternal fate.
"Be ye therefore perfect" Mike, not become.
Personally I celebrate Christmas, always have and always will and I am not "repulsed" by the cross at all. Jesus dieing on the cross was for my salvation, why should that repulse me?
In the end we will all be judged, I will just have to wait til then. Btw, you still have not answered my question. How can God be over Jesus if they are one in the same?
How can God bless anyone if you don't believe Jesus is God.
God the Father has all power and is able to bless people. The invisible God has always existed and is before all things. How would He not be able to bless anyone? He blessed us all by giving us Jesus to die for our sins.
Quote:
Jesus was without sin and claimed to be God.
Jesus called himself "I AM", God told Moses his name was "I AM"
Jesus was called "Immanuel" - God with us
Jesus called himself "Alpha and Omega", the Father called himself "Alpha and Omega"
As I shared, I believe that God gave all things to Jesus including the right to be called God. (Colossians 1:14-19) (John 16:15) He is the exact image or representation of the Father (Colossians 1/Hebrews 1) (John 14:9) The fulness of God dwelled in Him (Colossians 1:19) Jesus also said that the Father was greater than He was. (John 14:28) The Father sent Jesus (John 12:45) . Jesus came forth from the Father (John 16:23) and Jesus acted on behalf of the Father (John 14:1O) The Father is to be glorifed in the Son (John 14:13) God highly exalted Him (Philippians 2:9)
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God was found to be in the form of a servant. Speaking of his God man relationship Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped" Jesus set aside his glory as God.
This is beyong human comprehension.
5. For, let this mind be in you that [is] also in Christ Jesus,6. who, being in the form of God, thought [it] not robbery to be equal to God,7. but did empty himself, the form of a servant having taken, in the likeness of men having been made,8. and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death -- death even of a cross,
KJV
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I'm truly sorry, but to not believe this truth, is not to believe in Christ's claim....I AM...The Jehovah...God.
As I have shared, I believe that Jesus is the exact image/representation of God, has the right to be called God, is Lord and Savior, the only mediator between God and man. Jesus died for our sins and rose again. He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. When we look at Jesus we "see" the invisible God. Now, does this disqualify me from being a believer/Christian? God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 07-15-2008 at 02:51 PM..
Personally I celebrate Christmas, always have and always will and I am not "repulsed" by the cross at all. Jesus dieing on the cross was for my salvation, why should that repulse me?
In the end we will all be judged, I will just have to wait til then. Btw, you still have not answered my question. How can God be over Jesus if they are one in the same?
I thought I did when Matthew 1:23 says Jesus is called "Immanuel"; that He was accused of blasphemy, (John 10:33) calling himself God. That Jesus was with God and was God at the same time John 1:1.
Yet, Philippians 2:6 says he did laid it aside. Meaning during this, he is considered to be in his "humility" That humility was in the form of a servant, another words -- human.
There was once that his Godhead was unveiled, the Transfiguration....
"His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light." Matthew 17:1-3
"His clothes became dazzling white, whiter than anyone in the world could bleach them." Mark 9:3
"the appearance of his face changed, and his clothes became as bright as a flash of lightning" Luke 9:29
Those who are of the Spirit of God, accepts by faith. The spirit of the unbelievers is Romans 11:8 'as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes so that they could not see and ears so that they could not hear, to this very day." At some point God takes away your chance of grace. Mike, while I'm here the offer is still being given........
BTW, I celebrate Christmas this way, the true meaning is "God became one of us, became like the created and was totally dependent on his creation, dwelt amoung us so that he could be reject, abused and die in our place". Its meaningless if that isn't the message.
Last edited by twin.spin; 07-15-2008 at 03:13 PM..
Freedom, The word of God is only the Bible. Our logic, hearts and minds and soul are easily corruptible.
Jesus will be surprised to learn that.
As well, here are some scriptures:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)
Hbr 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Hbr 10:16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Rev 17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
Those who are of the Spirit of God, accepts by faith. The spirit of the unbelievers is Romans 11:8 'as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes so that they could not see and ears so that they could not hear, to this very day."
BTW, I celebrate Christmas this way, the true meaning is "God became one of us, became like the created and was totally dependent on his creation, dwelt amoung us so that he could be reject, abused and die in our place". Its meaningless if that isn't the message.
Hi, respectfully, there are many believers/Christians who have the Spirit of God who do not believe in the Trinity. I have not read that one has to believe this in order to be a believer, a follower of Jesus Christ who is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
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A person who rejects the Trinity rejects this truth and will be damned to "outer darkness" or hell f o r e v e r.
Never read this in the scriptures.
I also don't believe that the invisible God, the Creator and Sustainer of all had to become dependent on His creation or that God the Father died. Jesus, the Son of God died for us and God the Father raised Him. (Acts 2:32) God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 07-15-2008 at 04:18 PM..
Personally, I have a very hard time accepting the complication of a trinity..No one can explain it without causing more confusion..I have no problem with believing that as long as I don't humanize God with human appearance and thoughts, that I can accept the fact that Jesus is his beloved son, as God said; and God is His father, as Jesus said..I believe they are one in unity, love and light, and Jesus does (and has done from the beginning),the work of the Father until he presents his bride to Him.. I think at that time Jesus and the Holy Spirit will once again become part of the one God, because their work will be finished..My salvation does not depend on whether I think God is Jesus, or that God is Jesus and the Holy Spirit..I think they are part of God. How or if God somehow separated them from himself is only to be imagined since Gods thoughts are not ours, so I don't try to explain it, because it would make no more sense than the explanation of the trinity.. My salvation depends on my faith, the way I live my life and the way I present myself to others be they believers or not..The "rules" of christianity have been pointed out to me that in order to be christian I have to accept the trinitarian concept or I m not a "true" christian..That is why I call myself a believer, so that I don't become a stumbling block to any "true" christian...
Last edited by Miss Blue; 07-15-2008 at 04:32 PM..
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)
Hbr 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Hbr 10:16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Rev 17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
godspeed,
freedom
I can't rep you anymore until I 'spread some around' but - thanks for bringing some balance here.
I came upon this link as I searched the 'this day have I begotten you" passages
On translating "This day I have begotten you" (http://isv.org/catacombs/begotten_you.htm - broken link)
Do not the following verses imply that Christ was begotten on a particular day?
Psalm 2:7 (KJV) -- "I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee." Acts 13:33 (KJV) -- "God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee." Heb 1:5 (KJV) -- "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?" Heb 5:5 (KJV) -- "So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee."
What is "this day"? It seems untenable to say that He was eternally begotten, no?
You are correct: the answer to your question is, indeed, "No." That's because your observations are, indeed, untenable. Here are 2 basic schools of thought on this" The first school of thought suggests that the "day" of the begetting is using descriptive terminology from ancient Middle Eastern enthronement ceremonies. While the son of the King was always the King's Son, the coronation day, or day upon which the son assumes the control of the royal throne from the father, is said to be the day in which the son is begotten of the father. In this sense it's symbolic of the enthronement. The second view relates theologically to the day in which it was proven -- or, perhaps, more accurately, demonstrated -- by the resurrection from the dead that the son is shown to be begotten. Neither of these views suggests that there was no eternal begetting, only that there came a day on which the begetting was vested in a specific event that was knowable to men. At any rate, to say "there was a time when he (Christ) was not" is heretical. This Arian and anti-Nicene view has been historically rejected by all orthodox believers throughout history".
What we basically have here, as you can see above, is something which can not be satisfied with regular thought process and logic. What the heck is "eternally begotten" supposed to mean? By all that we know concerning the meaning of the word 'begotten', it denotes a beginning.
We don't have to believe something incomprehensible to be "true Christians". We just need to acknowledge (believe) that Jesus is God incarnate, that is, God literally manifested in the body of a man. Not two or three people. There is one God and one firstborn Son - the first among many brothers.
This needn't be some big controversy. Religion loves dogma though.
He was accused of blasphemy, (John 10:33)
This accusation "blasphemy" was the "crime" he was crucified for.
I forgot to post to this earlier. The response that Jesus gave is:
"Is it not written in your law, you are gods?' If He called them gods to whom the word of God came (and the scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming' because I said 'I am the Son of God?'
3 things that I see are that the word for 'gods' (small g) may have referred to divinely appointed judges in Israel, as representing God, in His authority in the passage Jesus refered to. Jesus also said that the Father had sanctified Him and He said that the Father had sent Him. The works that He did testified to this. His testimony was truth.
Some cross references that I have given for this verse are
Matthew 9:1-4 / Luke 5:13-21 where Jesus heals the paralytic and some were upset because Jesus had forgiven the man's sins. They said that He was blaspheming because they understood that no one could forgive sins except God alone
(But God had given Jesus the authority to forgive sins - Matthew 9:6)
Also John 5:18 where Jesus not only broke the Sabbath but called God His Father, thus making Himself equal to God. Jesus had God's authority but Jesus also said that the Father was greater than He was (John 14:28) None of this contradicts the view that God the Father gave Jesus all authority, all power, all things, and that Jesus is God's exact image/representation. I think Meerkat shared on another thread that when we look in a mirror we see our reflection but that image is not us. It is a reflection of who we are outwardly. Jesus reflects the invisible God's being . When we "look" at Jesus we see the essence/nature of God.
John 14:10
"Do you not believe that I am in the Father and that the Father is in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves..."
Just my belief. God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 07-15-2008 at 05:12 PM..
Let us break down John 1:1-14 to reflect what Jesus says, if we believe that which was said.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Is Jesus the Word?Yes or no He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. He is the Creator? Yes or no
In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. He is the Light ? Yes or no
There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. He was not the Light, but to testify about the Light. There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
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