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This is a very interesting topic but has anyone considered that the jews had to be dispersed to all the nations before they could be regathered as a nation. In 70AD this is what happened the temple was destroyed and the Jews were dispersed. Now take into consideration that no other nation had ever returned after being dispersed for a long period of time. I believe there have only been a few and they had only been dispersed perhaps 300 to 500 years so if Christ returned in a mere 100 years where would the miricle be since there are other examples of this happening. Now 1900 to 2000 years, that would be miracalous. Now as I said the temple was destroyed in 70AD and Israel became a nation again in 1948 (Ezekiel 37). What must also be considered is that Russia was not a supepower until the 20th century and it is the nation mentioned in Ezekiel 38-39. Increase in travel and knowledge in Daniel 12:4. 2 Timothy mentions apostacy in 4:1-4, occultism in 4:3-4, and scoffers in 3:1-12, things that would have never happened to a noticable extent until recently. Moral breakdown in 2 Peter 3:1-12, I mean look at the abortions, sexual immorality, gang violence all getting worse and more widespread than ever before. These are but a few things that have only come about in force over the past 100 to 150 years.
This was about the time that Europe was leaving its pagan past. Lots of Europe was adopting a new faith. The Khazars decided to thread the needle between the Muslims and the Byzantine Empire and decided on Judaism. The idea that Judaism does not have converts is not true. A lot of people like to emphasize that Ashkenazi has Middle Eastern genetic roots(ignoring Paul saying all are equal while doing this). The problem is they are most closely related to the Turks which should not be a surprise since the Khazars had Turkic peoples in the empire. Its not even as amazing as Krajina Serbs moving back to Serbia since they are actually Serbs.
Looking at genetics we see Ruth was from Moab . Israel was still defined by a Covenant which is now gone. Thats why Uriah the Hittite served in David's army. One racial component that is important is the priesthood from Aaron as well as the supporting Levites from Gershon, Kohath, and Merari.
You can see how this was maintained in Against Apion -Josephus. The records of family genealogies is now lost from the destruction of the Temple. One cannot be a priest without tracing back to Aaron.
Not many pay attention to the real problem of another temple.
Ezekiel 43
18 And He said to me, “Son of man, thus says the Lord GOD: ‘These are the ordinances for the altar on the day when it is made, for sacrificing burnt offerings on it, and for sprinkling blood on it. 19 You shall give a young bull for a sin offering to the priests, the Levites, who are of the seed of Zadok, who approach Me to minister to Me,’ says the Lord GOD.
Where will anyone find the seed of Zadok? Why do we need him since Jesus is the high priest to a superior priesthood not of Levi or Aaron? Jesus has built the temple already unless in addition to Acts 2, Acts 15 is mistaken about Amos 9.
It is a little amusing however that Ashkenazim, now the largest component by far of Jews, was from the land of Gog and Magog.
The flaws on how Ezekiel is used here is also a rather long list. Just as one example, Russia is NOT mentioned here. The silly notion that Rosh has anything to do with it is exposed next to chief prince which is to say 1st. Rosh means first just like Rosh Hashanah is the Jewish new year. The Varangian Rus were not in the area until the 9th century. This is when the ever flexible methodologies are applied. Russia is now defined by its current residence, thus the people is considered by the geographical location in this case and not the then Scythinan,/Ashkenazi residence. Now Russia is not even their but what the heck, lets make it stick on this one. With Israel, this turned on its head to consider them a race in exile even on top of it that most of them never had ancestry in Judea.
"Beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." 2 Peter 3:8 (Hosea 6:2)
Hi StirringWaters,
That is like saying one can rob, murder and steal because I can find a verse that says "God is merciful." Lets do it now since its so close by. Lets cancel it all out with 2 Peter. 3:8
First the usual
Revelation 22
20 He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.”
Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!
Now I will neutralize according to the recipe.
2 Peter 3
8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us,[b] not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
I believe we have a biscuit.
Next I will make another.
Revelation 22
15 But[h] outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
Just a little more magic from 2 Peter 3:8
2 Peter 3
8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us,[b] not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
Look, the same verse works. I can not only cancel out time, but sin as well. Thats the magic of 2 Peter 3:8. What a verse I'm telling ya....
I guess we will just have to disagree on this one. Rosh was a son of Benjamin which was one of the 12 tribes and part of it was taken into captivity to the north and over the Caucasus Mountains into what is now Russia. I agree Rosh also means first but it is also a name. Gog and Magog were the bastard incestual offspring of the daughters of Lot believed to have settled in the far north. If we look at a map of the world Moscow is directly north of Israel.
Now I will not go any further, but we must understand that many nations considered many other nations with different names than one another.
This is a very interesting topic but has anyone considered that the jews had to be dispersed to all the nations before they could be regathered as a nation. In 70AD this is what happened the temple was destroyed and the Jews were dispersed. Now take into consideration that no other nation had ever returned after being dispersed for a long period of time. I believe there have only been a few and they had only been dispersed perhaps 300 to 500 years so if Christ returned in a mere 100 years where would the miricle be since there are other examples of this happening. Now 1900 to 2000 years, that would be miracalous. Now as I said the temple was destroyed in 70AD and Israel became a nation again in 1948 (Ezekiel 37). What must also be considered is that Russia was not a supepower until the 20th century and it is the nation mentioned in Ezekiel 38-39. Increase in travel and knowledge in Daniel 12:4. 2 Timothy mentions apostacy in 4:1-4, occultism in 4:3-4, and scoffers in 3:1-12, things that would have never happened to a noticable extent until recently. Moral breakdown in 2 Peter 3:1-12, I mean look at the abortions, sexual immorality, gang violence all getting worse and more widespread than ever before. These are but a few things that have only come about in force over the past 100 to 150 years.
This rumor is still going around? I remember when the Soviet Union was at its height in the late 1970s early 1980s all kinds of "Christian authors" were waxing orgasmic over that empire's apparent fulfillment of Ezekiel 38 and 39 and then a funny thing happened on the way to Jesus coming back. The Soviet Union fell apart and that predicted invasion that was to lead to Megiddo eased up an shoved under a rug. 25 years later Russia is rising from the ashes and I guess the prophecies are back in effect again?
I guess we will just have to disagree on this one. Rosh was a son of Benjamin which was one of the 12 tribes and part of it was taken into captivity to the north and over the Caucasus Mountains into what is now Russia. I agree Rosh also means first but it is also a name. Gog and Magog were the bastard incestual offspring of the daughters of Lot believed to have settled in the far north. If we look at a map of the world Moscow is directly north of Israel.
Now I will not go any further, but we must understand that many nations considered many other nations with different names than one another.
Hi RobinD69,
How is Gog and Magog the bastard incestuous offspring of Lot? I am aware of Ammon and Moab...Magog was a son of Japheth, and Lot, a relative of Abraham, would be from Shem.
This rumor is still going around? I remember when the Soviet Union was at its height in the late 1970s early 1980s all kinds of "Christian authors" were waxing orgasmic over that empire's apparent fulfillment of Ezekiel 38 and 39 and then a funny thing happened on the way to Jesus coming back. The Soviet Union fell apart and that predicted invasion that was to lead to Megiddo eased up an shoved under a rug. 25 years later Russia is rising from the ashes and I guess the prophecies are back in effect again?
Hi Condemned,
Yes and the so called "literal" interpretations.
Ezekiel 37
So I prophesied as I was commanded; and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and suddenly a rattling; and the bones came together, bone to bone. 8 Indeed, as I looked, the sinews and the flesh came upon them, and the skin covered them over; but there was no breath in them.
The Christian faith bases the Resurrection its central tenant and while having a description of one, some people go ahead and decide this is a political rebirth. Yes I am sure this is poetic but its still about a Resurrection.
Ezekiel 38
4 I will turn you around, put hooks into your jaws, and lead you out, with all your army, horses, and horsemen, all splendidly clothed, a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords. 5 Persia, Ethiopia,[b] and Libya[c] are with them, all of them with shield and helmet;
Here again the "literal" futurists break the rules again since air planes and tanks are just as good.
Try to convince any of them that there is symbolism in Matthew 24 and thats just crazy....
How is Gog and Magog the bastard incestuous offspring of Lot? I am aware of Ammon and Moab...Magog was a son of Japheth and Lot, a relative of Abraham, would be from Shem.
OOPS, sorry about that, havent read the section in a while,I dont know why I forgot that. Confused myself.
Wasn't the tower of Babel in Babylon? Nimrod's time? Wasn't it, Babylon, "rebuilt" after being destroyed thousands of years later? Isn't it around today? Wasn't Jerusalem also called Babylon in the Bible? Interesting topic none the less. So Israel, the nation today, is Israel of the bible? Wasn't Jesus Israel? Aren't we Israel?
Israel = "he shall be a prince of God" 1) the name given to the patriarch Jacob (and borne by him in addition to his former name) 2) the family or descendants of Israel, the nation of Israel 3)Christians, the Israel of God (Gal 6:16), for not all those who draw their bodily descent from Israel are true Israelites, i.e. are those whom God pronounces to be Israelites and has chosen to salvation
Wasn't the tower of Babel in Babylon? Nimrod's time? Wasn't it, Babylon, "rebuilt" after being destroyed thousands of years later? Isn't it around today? Wasn't Jerusalem also called Babylon in the Bible? Interesting topic none the less. So Israel, the nation today, is Israel of the bible? Wasn't Jesus Israel? Aren't we Israel?
Israel = "he shall be a prince of God" 1) the name given to the patriarch Jacob (and borne by him in addition to his former name) 2) the family or descendants of Israel, the nation of Israel 3)Christians, the Israel of God (Gal 6:16), for not all those who draw their bodily descent from Israel are true Israelites, i.e. are those whom God pronounces to be Israelites and has chosen to salvation
Hi HotinAZ,
The kiss of no relevancy for modern Israel is Deuteronomy 30, the Law, where it explicitly states that Israel must turn to God completely before going into the land. The founders of Israel and many residents are hardly even religious Jews let alone seeking Jesus.
The kiss of no relevancy for modern Israel is Deuteronomy 30, the Law, where it explicitly states that Israel must turn to God completely before going into the land. The founders of Israel and many residents are hardly even religious Jews let alone seeking Jesus.
Let's don't forget that what got the nation of Israel into trouble in the first place with their God, is forming alliances with other surrounding nations and adopting certain doctrine and customs of those nations that contradicted the Law. Their forming those alliances are illustrated by God as being Adultry , that is in the spiritual sense, since he used the expression of being husbandly owner of Israel.
The modern day country Israel looks everywhere for support and comfort from everyone but their supposed husbandly owner their Almighty God Yahweh or Jehovah of the Hebrew scriptures.
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