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"Judge me, O LORD; for I have walked in mine integrity: I have trusted also in the LORD; therefore I shall not slide. Examine me, O LORD, and prove me; try my reins and my heart. For thy lovingkindness is before mine eyes: and I have walked in thy truth.
I have not sat with vain persons,neither will I go in with dissembers. I have hated the congregation of evil doers; and will not sit with the wicked." Ps 26:1-5
Throughout the scriptures, the Spirit of Christ shows that God's Law and God's Grace are in perfect agreement. People of true faith walk in integrity as they obey the Commandments of God. Indeed, the scriptures teach that only when we walk in ALL the Commandments of God, do we walk in "thy truth" ...
"Thou art near, O LORD; and ALL THY COMMANDMENTS ARE TRUTH." Psalms 119:51
Jesus, the prophets, and the apostles agree that people EITHER obey all the commandments of God -- OR, they are wicked-evil-doers. So who is a dissembler?
DISSEMBLER: to hide under a false appearance. 2. to pretend: to disguise oneself to conceal ones motives. Deceive.
The Ten Commandments are truth. So, a dissembler will deceive by changing those words of God. For example: the hypocritical Pharisees ADDED the traditions of men to the Commandments of God; and Antinomian Churchmen DIMINISH the Commandments of God by saying: "under the gospel dispensation, the moral law is of no use or obligation, faith alone being necessary to salvation."
In both cases, the dissembler is a hypocrite who deceives by tampering with the truth of God's Law. He professes to love God; but refuses to obey Him.
Under the pretext of extolling God's grace, the dissemblers of modern Christianity will often use the words "legalism", "legalist" or "legalistic" as an ad hominem argument against the faithful teachers who are showing God's people their sins and calling them to repentance.
It is no wonder that immature Christians are prone to believe a stigma is attached to legalism. The dissemblers of Christianity sound so authoritative and pedagogic when they make their assertions that legalism" lacks mercy and is void of love; when they allege that it comes from impure motives; and, when they compare "legalists" with the hypocritical Pharisees who added the heavy burdens of tradition to the Commandments of God --but you will soon see the treachery of the dissemblers when you come to realize that JESUS CHRIST WAS A LEGALIST!
It was Jesus who said: "... if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." Matt 19:17 (KJV)
It was Jesus who said: "And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell." Matt 5:30 (NIV)
It was the resurrected Jesus who commissioned His disciples with these words:
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: ..." Matt 28:19-20
Jesus Christ:
"Depart from me, you who practice LAWLESSNESS " * Matt 7:23.
When you read Matthew 7:21-29, you will see those are the words that Jesus will say to the people who called Him "Lord" but refused to obey Him. Those many people (who will be rejected on judgment day) will have this one thing in common: they were NOT LEGALISTS!
Donna Kupp
* (The KJV translates lawlessness as "iniquity". It is the Greek word "anomia" which means without law.)
I said last night that there would come again an assault on the gospel.
I was right.
I issued a statement today speaking many of the same words that Paul did.
I'm sorry , but you can't toss out the condemnation of the pharisees in Luke, or the parable of the pharisee and tax collector, or the women caught in adultery, healing on the sabbath. or my favorite, Mark 12;41 the poor widow, and then say Jesus was a Legalist and use your command of greek to spin this.
donna,
I encourage you to build up the body by preaching the gospel of the cross and that Jeus died for the remission of sins, once and for all, forever. and that he rose from the dead
and that any other message preached than this is foolishness.
God is not angry anymore. His wrath has been satisfied.
If his wrath is over then he must be having donuts and coffee during the last two thousand years. Love, as the gospel is no longer a mystery and is "visible" by hearing the gospel and that stands out (it doesn't matter if no human "sees" it) but the wrath, part of his love, is still around just in the background and very "visible" without the gospel. I know, it was all "free will" and god just stood around like some dope and "gentleman" and let us slaughter each other. Sin still gets the 2X4. Sorry to post but I am 59 now and wanted to post on the 59th page.
Romans 10 1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. 5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) 6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world? 7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? 8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just. 9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known: 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes. 19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Your are a liar, you are unrighteous, you are a sinner, you do not seek after God, you have murder in your heart and are swift to draw blood. All of you ... And me too ... Our most righteous works are as dirty rags ...
Only Gods grace saves. Only through faith are you deemed righteous. Even your obedience is a lie ... Even Abraham was not obedient, or Moses or David or Peter or Paul or any man or woman who has ever lived. Get over it and thank God for his mercy and love.
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 01-04-2010 at 11:49 PM..
Rev 4:10-11
fall down do the twenty and four elders before Him who is sitting upon the throne, and bow before Him who is living to the ages of the ages, and they cast their crowns before the throne, saying, `Worthy art Thou, O Lord, to receive the glory, and the honour, and the power, because Thou -- Thou didst create the all things, and because of Thy will are they, and they were created.'
Do you know why they throw their crowns of glory before the throne of Christ? It is because only he is worthy. Whatever good we have done he has done in us. If you think you are worthy of salvation and glory, you do not know what true glory is ... If you think you are worthy of salvation, you will be corrected in the end.
Only by begging for mercy while acknowledging the fact that you are a sinner and unworthy will you be justified. Util then you are like the Pharisees who think themselves better than others, and you will be debased. The humble shall be glorified, and the proud shall be abased.
Ironmaw said: Only Gods grace saves. Only through faith are you deemed righteous. Even your obedience is a lie ... Even Abraham was not obedient, or Moses or David or Peter or Paul or any man or woman who has ever lived. Get over it and thank God for his mercy and love.
You are correct that Gods grace does save us initially...When we repent and turn to the Lord to cleanse us of our past sins. But Jesus told us there are conditions (as is evidenced by the many parables he taught with)....we must surrender our lives/wills, deny ourselves, follow the commandments, be obedient and follow in the footsteps of Jesus, continually repenting of any sins we may commit after our initial repentance, until we are completely made new and in the image and likeness of Christ...walking completely in the Spirit. Faith alone will not make one righteous....Jesus was pretty clear about this and even Luther, later in his life, realized that faith alone does not save and is nothing more than a cheap grace gospel which misleads people into thinking there is no cost for their salvation. Jesus himself said that being a disciple was costly.
While it's easy for some to ignore all the continual statements of Jesus where he told us to follow the commandments and give Paul's statements precedence....I would rather be a Jesus follower than a Paul follower and give Jesus words more authority than Pauls.
I am really curious how you interpret the following statement made by Jesus, especially the last two verses:
Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
We know from scripture that the scribes and pharisees practiced a shallow obedience to the law because their oral traditions took precedence over the actual law that was given them by God. How can our righteousness exceed their if we are told to ignore the law completely, something Jesus NEVER taught us to do?
Interesting topic. Here's the context of one of the verses quoted in the OP (Mt. 19:16-26, NASB):
Quote:
16And someone came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?" 17And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."
18Then he said to Him, "Which ones?" And Jesus said, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER; YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY; YOU SHALL NOT STEAL; YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS;
19HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER; and YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
20The young man said to Him, "All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?"
21Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."
22But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.
23And Jesus said to His disciples, "Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
24"Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
25When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, "Then who can be saved?"
26And looking at them Jesus said to them, "With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
Perfect righteousness is the divine requirement. If we don't keep the law perfectly--and even if we break one commandment--we are condemned as lawbreakers. But Paul had a very interesting thing to say about the law in Romans 3:
Quote:
21But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
22even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;
23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
25whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;
26for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
27Where then is boasting? It is excluded By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.
28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law
I love v. 21: a righteousness apart from the law, a righteousness "of God" and "through faith." We are saved by God's own perfect righteousness imputed to us through faith, as Paul also described in Philippians 3:
Quote:
2Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision;
3for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh,
4although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more:
5circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee;
6as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.
8More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ,
9and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,...
These are telling verses: Paul counted all his former "righteousness" as a Pharisee and blamelessness as "loss" and "rubbish" in order to gain Christ, not having a righteousness of his own derived from the Law but that which is through faith in Christ, a righteousness that comes "from God on the basis of faith."
Interesting topic. Here's the context of one of the verses quoted in the OP (Mt. 19:16-26, NASB):
Perfect righteousness is the divine requirement. If we don't keep the law perfectly--and even if we break one commandment--we are condemned as lawbreakers. But Paul had a very interesting thing to say about the law in Romans 3:
I love v. 21: a righteousness apart from the law, a righteousness "of God" and "through faith." We are saved by God's own perfect righteousness imputed to us through faith, as Paul also described in Philippians 3:
These are telling verses: Paul counted all his former "righteousness" as a Pharisee and blamelessness as "loss" and "rubbish" in order to gain Christ, not having a righteousness of his own derived from the Law but that which is through faith in Christ, a righteousness that comes "from God on the basis of faith."
I think Jesus words have more authority than Pauls words.....do you or do you not agree?
Paul contradicts Jesus in many cases regarding what is required of us, the cost, for us to have salvation and enter into the Kingdom.
Faith alone will not make one righteous....Jesus was pretty clear about this and even Luther, later in his life, realized that faith alone does not save and is nothing more than a cheap grace gospel which misleads people into thinking there is no cost for their salvation.
Luther said that? Where? Could you provide a quote and a reference? Thanks.
Quote:
While it's easy for some to ignore all the continual statements of Jesus where he told us to follow the commandments and give Paul's statements precedence....I would rather be a Jesus follower than a Paul follower and give Jesus words more authority than Pauls.
All scripture is inspired by God, so it isn't a matter of following one or the other: "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work" (2 Tim. 3:16-17, NASB).
Quote:
We know from scripture that the scribes and pharisees practiced a shallow obedience to the law because their oral traditions took precedence over the actual law that was given them by God. How can our righteousness exceed their if we are told to ignore the law completely, something Jesus NEVER taught us to do?
Because the righteousness that exceeds that of the scribes and pharisees is the perfect righteousness of Christ himself, who fulfilled the law on behalf of those who believe in him. How could we possibly be required to add to something that is already perfect?
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