1 John 1:8 - "If we say we have no sin..." (Epistles, messages)

[Harold Kupp]

HAVE NO SIN?

Those who say that it is not necessary to cease from sin in order to
inherit eternal life often quote the following verse:

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves,
and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8)

By quoting that verse they attempt to prove that it is impossible to
cease from sin.

In response, I would point out that any attempt to make that verse prove
that Christians are unable to cease from sin is to contradict the design
of the Epistle - "...that ye sin NOT". It would also contradict John's
many decisive statements to the effect that a Christian who is truly
born of God does not commit sin. In fact, John said: He that
committeth sin is of the devil;" (1 John 3:8)

Please compare the following statements made by John in the very
same Epistle:


Group A
"If we say that
we have no sin,
we deceive ourselves." (1:8)

"If we say that
we have not sinned
we make Him a liar," (1:10)



Group B


"Whosoever is born of God
doth NOT commit sin." (3:9)


"Whosoever is born of God
we have not sinned
we make Him a liar," (1:10)


Do you think the verses in both groups refer to someone who is born of
God? If so, then John is hopelessly contradicting himself. Of course,
that cannot be. Therefore, we may be certain that each group of verses
has reference to a different subject.

* The verses in Group B refer to those who are born of God. They
do NOT commit sin.

* The verses in Group A have to do with exposing false teachers who
were teaching Gnostic concepts about the nature of sin.

When John said: "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves." he
was pointing out the error of Gnosticism which said that those who
committed sin were held to be not guilty in the eyes of God.

"Gnostics alleged that by reason of the spiritual seed in them, and of
their superior spiritual knowledge and communion with the light they
were free to act as they chose and were not polluted thereby."
(Lange Commentary)

Daniel Steele said this about Gnosticism:

"The moral effects of this doctrine were indeed deplorable. Sin
existed only in the body while the soul was perfectly HOLY, hence all
kinds of sin could be committed with impunity. The golden jewel in the
dunghill was not defiled. Thus was it with the soul of the glutton, the
drunkard, and the adulterer. None of these neededcleansing, for the spirit,
the real personality was SINLESS."
(Half hours with John's Epistles 1901)

In the first chapter of John's Epistle, he was comparing what he
and the apostles taught with the doctrines of false teachers. For
example, John exposes a different lie in each of the following verses
that begin with the phrase "If we say.."

(1:6) If we say that we have fellowship with Him and walk in darkness, we
lie, and DO NOT THE TRUTH. (Thy law is the truth. Psalms 119:142)

* The false teachers say that willful sin does not
break fellowship with God.

(1:8) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and
the truth is not in us.

* The false teachers say that we have no sin charged to
our spirit; the body is guilty, but the soul is under
the blood of Jesus and therefore has no guilt.

(1:10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word
is not in us.

* The false teachers say that we have not sinned in our spirit,
it remains sinless no matter how many times the body sins.

Look closely, the above verse does not refer to those who say "I do not
commit sin" - it refers to those who say: I have NOT sinned.

All men have sinned, but those who are born of God stop committing sin.
The false teaching of modern Christianity is that we have dual natures
(one sinful and the other sinless) They say something like this:

"The Old nature is born of fallen man, and is evil.
"The New nature is born of God and is Holy.

"The New nature does not commit sin, because it comes from God's seed."
"The Old nature does sin any time you agree to let it."

"Seed from God is incorruptible and produces in us an incorruptible
nature. Therefore, the NEW nature cannot be corrupted at any time or
any way."

"Man is corruptible so man's nature is sinful."
"God is incorruptible, so the New nature is SINLESS."

Therefore, they say, "even if you are a 'defeated Christian' (a willful
sinner) you will still be saved because of God's new nature which dwells
in you." "Praise God, in the NEW nature we have no sin."


After reading the explanations of Gnosticism, it is easy to see that
modern Christianity has come up with a new form of Gnostic teaching
which says that we have dual natures; one sinful, the other sin-free. They say
that because of the the blood of Jesus, even if we commit deliberate willful
sin, all sins past, present and future are forgiven, and we are held to
be not guilty in the eyes of God.

The truth is that Jesus makes His people free FROM sin,
- not free TO sin without fear of eternal destruction.

When we are born of God, we have committed to obey God and surrender
ourselves completely to His will. At that stage, we probably do not
know much about sin or the sin nature buried deep within our souls. We
may do things that break God's law without knowing it. If the sin is
done in ignorance then the atoning death of Jesus covers it. But, once
we recognize that what we are doing is sin, we must stop doing it - or
be guilty of rebellion. If we continue to commit sin, we will eventually
be lost because we are refusing to accept Jesus as our Lord. Think about
it - if we do not obey Him, he is not our Lord.

When John said:

And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father,
Jesus Christ the righteous:

He was referring to sins of ignorance – not willful sin.

John said: Whosoever is born of God sinneth NOT. As sin is revealed
by the Holy Spirit those who are born of God do not continue doing it.
Eventually all sin is revealed and thus they quit doing all sin. The
Christian who continues to willfully disobey even one of God's Ten
Commandments will be lost.


HK

[HSVbulldawg]

How do you interpret Romans 7:14-25?

Related questions: Do you believe it's possible to be without sin in spirit but still have a sinful flesh? Do you believe the body you have has already been purified and made perfect in Christ, or is it still affected by sin? Do you think Paul was already set free of his sinful body when he wrote this, or was he saying his spirit was set free, and he would one day be set free of his sinful flesh?

14For we know that the Law is (Z)spiritual, but I am (AA)of flesh, (AB)sold (AC)into bondage to sin.
15For what I am doing, (AD)I do not understand; for I am not practicing (AE)what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.

16But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with (AF)the Law, confessing that the Law is good.

17So now, (AG)no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

18For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my (AH)flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.

19For (AI)the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.

20But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, (AJ)I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

21I find then (AK)the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.

22For I joyfully concur with the law of God in (AL)the inner man,

23but I see (AM)a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the (AN)law of my mind and making me a prisoner of (AO)the law of sin which is in my members.

24Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from (AP)the body of this (AQ)death?

25(AR)Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh (AS)the law of sin.

[Harold Kupp]

[quote=HSVbulldawg;7376426]How do you interpret Romans 7:14-25?

Related questions: Do you believe it's possible to be without sin in spirit but still have a sinful flesh? Do you believe the body you have has already been purified and made perfect in Christ, or is it still affected by sin? Do you think Paul was already set free of his sinful body when he wrote this, or was he saying his spirit was set free, and he would one day be set free of his sinful flesh?



Good intelligent question...

In the Romans 7 passage Paul is describing his past experience of coming to repentance as a narrator would describe an event he was watching happen.

He realized that the law was just and holy and good and yet he could not keep it - the very thing he did not want to do was what he did.

And yet he knew that the wages of sin was death - so he cried out to God for deliverance from his flesh.

Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?


This is the same experience those who love God and want to obey him must go through... the problem today is that when the Spirit of God leads men to repentance they are told by Modern Christianity that no-one can stop sinning.

The result of this teaching is that instead of calling on Jesus to make them free from sin as Paul did - they make themselves believe they will have eternal life despite their sin.

That is why Paul warned us:

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


HK

[HSVbulldawg]

Thanks for your answer! I have a few more questions though, because I'm not convinced that's the right interpretation.

Romans 8:10 - If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

The body is dead here, it is not alive.

Romans 8:23 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.

So, these two verses (which I read in the context of Romans 8) still lead me to believe that although we can have the mind of Christ, we (as of right now) still have a body that is dead in sin.

[Alpha8207]

Another non-original thread from 2007.....

Beliefnet Discussions - Beliefnet.com