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Men (heterosexual men) have been raping other men to humiliate and dominate them for thousands of years. Raping a man like you would a woman was a huge insult, especially in those times, as women were considered to be not much more than chattel. I don't think it was just any particular pagan sect that practiced this sort of nastiness.
Just have a look at the men in prisons in modern times who rape the "new meat". They are not homosexual, they are usually heterosexual. This type of horrible behaviour has nothing to do with homosexual orientation and it has nothing to do with loving homosexual relationships. And using the same type of "logic", ALL heterosexual men would be rapists because SOME men rape women. Which is obviously not true.
If you read anything about the original Hebrew story and Abrahamic times, the citizens of Sodom were considered sinful for many reasons. Yes their sexual behaviour was supposedly one type of "sin" (eg rape, adultery, sexual slavery, prostitution (male or female), indiscriminate sex etc), another was idolatry. But the main reason had to do with their extreme lack of hospitality and the terrible way they treated strangers, women, the poor etc.
The part of the story which is used by fundamentalists to condemn homosexuals has no sound basis in scripture or cultural context. Do a search on the word Sodom on any of the online Bibles and you'll come up with the handful of references to the sins of Sodom, none of which have anything to do with homosexuality. Even the mention of men going after "different flesh" or "strange flesh" in Jude was from the Greek term "Hetero Sarx" - again nothing to do with homosexuality.
The word "sodomite" was used in English translations for the Hebrew word "qadash" several times in biblical verses. However the majority of reputable language, history or Biblical scholars agree that this was a mistranslation for "male temple prostitute."
Strong's Hebrew Bible Dictionary: 'qadash'; a (quasi) sacred person, i.e. (technically) a (male) devotee (by prostitution) to licentious idolatry.
And let's not forget the actions of Lot- the supposedly Godly righteous man favored by God because he was saved from Sodom's destruction. Offering up his 2 virgin daughters to be raped by a mob of vicious aggressive men was supposedly a better alternative to allowing his 2 guests to be raped by the mob. It certainly would be against the rules of hospitality.
Whereas, raping girls or women would not be considered terribly bad as women were not as valued as men.
And let's not forget that later on, Lot has incestuous sex with his daughters. Such a Godly man- a fine example for modern Christians to follow. Not.
I thought the whole town showed up (including young and old)
Just checking and I was right..
the whole town showed up..
Genesis19:4-5
4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
so.. hmmm.. that would mean that heterosexual men wanted to have homosexual relations with the angels too..
of course thats the NIV version.. KJF says they wanted to "know" them.
interesting..
in the words of Arsenio Hall.. "things that make you go ... hmmmmmm"
Its important to seperate the idea of sin by an individual and sin by a community.
A individual who sins is subject to the Law. Repentence and faith in Christ remove the sins of an individual. Not to beat on the homosexuality issue, but it is a sin and it must be repented of. A homosexual can repent of a sin and be saved no different then a man who commits adultery with a woman or vice versa for a woman. What most dont seem to understand is that while being a homosexual you do not have to engage in the act. You have a choice knowing what God's law says. This can be applied to any and all other sins. Insert one and the idea is the same.
Sodom's sin was not one of individual's per se, but one of what the society as a whole had come to accept. It wasn't just homosexuality, but adultery, fornication, blasphemy, and idolatry that brought them to destruction. The general acceptance of it rose to the throne of God and he passed judgement. Take note that God spoke to Abraham of this and Abraham tried to get the number of righteous men down and finally had to stop at 10. That the angels came to Sodom did not change the ultimate judgement. Sodom was to be destroyed. However, that the residents came out and expressed a desire to continue their depravity openly signals the reason that judgement had passed in the first place. In short it wasnt any one sin, but the general lack of repentance and the open flaunting of sins in the eyes of God. I'll leave it to you to draw parallel's to modern society, but this can be applied as well today. A sin is a sin and homosexuality is one of those sins. Make no mistake you can be judged for it.
In short with Sodom it is not a specific sin that caused its destruction, but a vast array of sins. However, make no mistake homosexuality was one of them.
In regards to Jaymax points on Lot. First Lot would never nor has he ever been considered a model for a Jew or a Christain. From the moment he seperated from Abraham and cast his eyes to Sodom he was considered to be unworthy. Any modern theological scholar will point to Lot offering his daughter's in exchange for the angels points to a severe lack of faith in God. Lot being debased is not so much considered a sin by Lot as it was more on his daughters. Of course he drank wine and of course he was drunk, but take note that in the Bible there is no mention of Law's concerning incest until Moses was giving the law over 400 years later. Does this make it right? No. However, it by no means placed Lot in any other condition, but one who lacked faith in God.
1. Bible says all the men of Sodom came out both young and old. Were they all homosexuals? That doesn't really make sense in my head as how would they even have a town? There wouldn't be a town cause well.. you get the idea. So all the men realistically couldn't have been homosexuals.
2. So the mob shows up and Lott knows the men right? I mean if he thought they were homosexuals does that mean he was being sarcastic in offering up his daughter? I mean honestly.. angry mob outside my house and I'm not going to be in a sarcastic mood. So it doesn't sound really like a "homosexual mob" but .. just your plain ol run of the mill mob..
3. Why was the mob so upset? Why did all the men young and old show up at Lotts house? Was it just a pissed off mob of people who saw a couple strangers in town and go to Lotts house?
4. Lott saw the strangers as angels.. but the mob didn't. They said send the men who came to you tonight. They didn't say "send out the angels".. So was there something the mob saw in the strangers that pissed them off?
So I'm confused I guess... as to what the sin of sodom was.
Again.. the thread here.. not a debate on homosexuality. Its a debate (for lack of better word) on the sins of Sodom.
They wanted to have sexual relations with the angels who appeared as man.
Please read this true history, and then see the complete and utter debauchery of Sodom and the cities of the plain was so bad that nothing could be done but to salt the earth for cleansing it, by YHWH nuking it from heaven.
And for the record: Homosexual behavior is called "fornication" in the Bible, just as all sexual perversions are all called "fornication" in the Word of God.
Please read this true history, and then see the complete and utter debauchery of Sodom and the cities of the plain was so bad that nothing could be done but to salt the earth for cleansing it, by YHWH nuking it from heaven.
And for the record: Homosexual behavior is called "fornication" in the Bible, just as all sexual perversions are all called "fornication" in the Word of God.
So in the "entire story on what Sodom was like" I find lots of things but I don't see anything homosexual in your links. Can you point them out?
(Genesis 19:12) They struck the men who were at the doorway of the house with blindness, both small and great, so that they wearied themselves trying to find the doorway.
This part has always tripped me out since I was a kid that even after being struck down blind by God they were still trying to reach the door ?!
WOW! they were so wicked and perverse, they were so turned over to their wickedness and it showed such a sense of evil, such a sense of lostness, such a sense of damnation they were so driven by their perverse wickedness that they didn't even care for their own well being after being struck with blindness that instead of repenting they would rather defy a loving, merciful God. It was brutaly sad and horrifying.
So in the "entire story on what Sodom was like" I find lots of things but I don't see anything homosexual in your links. Can you point them out?
The Book of Jasher is not a text that can be accepted as authentic. There are no known copies pre Christ in existance. Even a basic study of this book among others can show a lack of authenticity. While I do not doubt a persons faith in Christ I do doubt any credible source for this book. If you are new in Christ or not well versed in Biblical literature things like this can lead one astray. I apologize for pointing this out, but I stand by it.
To think of the sin of Sodom as being any one sin is not so simple. As clearly the sin of Sodom was not of any one indiviual, but of a group collectively. I addressed this in my first post, but I will try to show you a different perspective.
Draw on the idea of Jonah and the whale. Many people use the whale as proff that the story is myth. They focus on the whale or sea beast and claim it to be proof of the falacy of the book. Many unread Christians cant face up to this attack. They try to defend the whale story by all means as they should. However, in doing so the truth behind the story tend to be lost. Think of the whale as a prop in a play. While the prop has signifigance in some form to the play it is not THE FOCUS of the play. In Jonah and the Whale the focus is not the whale it is Jonah and what he did. This is like what the sin of Sodom was. The sin while very important leading to the destruction of the city, and it's sister city for that matter, it was not the focus of the story. You can list a number of sins as a reason for destruction, but what sin is greater than another?
Sodom was sinful in so many ways they were to numerous and thier depravity was so great that there was nothing to be done. If your looking for a specific sin you wont find it. If you however turn to the Law chapter's you will find all sins listed. Sin is anything outside the established order of God. God took a world in disorder and placed his order upon it. He created man first and woman second. Woman came out of man. Woman did not even have a name till after the fall of man. Read Genesis and find where Eve was named before mans fall. It's not there. It simply says she was called woman because she came out of man. If homosexuality was indeed not a sin then man could come out of man or woman out of woman. This is not what it says. Thus being outside the order of God. The Law specifically states fornication or man lying with man or beasts for that matter is a sin punishable by death.
Im sorry for the long post, but I hope this helps. I tried to be a bit general in the first post, but hopefully expanded enough here. The focus of Sodom is not any one sin, but a group of sins as a society as a whole that ultimately caused God's judgement. God is just and that he destoryed Sodom is all the truth a believer needs.
1. Bible says all the men of Sodom came out both young and old. Were they all homosexuals? That doesn't really make sense in my head as how would they even have a town? There wouldn't be a town cause well.. you get the idea. So all the men realistically couldn't have been homosexuals.
2. So the mob shows up and Lott knows the men right? I mean if he thought they were homosexuals does that mean he was being sarcastic in offering up his daughter? I mean honestly.. angry mob outside my house and I'm not going to be in a sarcastic mood. So it doesn't sound really like a "homosexual mob" but .. just your plain ol run of the mill mob..
3. Why was the mob so upset? Why did all the men young and old show up at Lotts house? Was it just a pissed off mob of people who saw a couple strangers in town and go to Lotts house?
4. Lott saw the strangers as angels.. but the mob didn't. They said send the men who came to you tonight. They didn't say "send out the angels".. So was there something the mob saw in the strangers that pissed them off?
So I'm confused I guess... as to what the sin of sodom was.
Again.. the thread here.. not a debate on homosexuality. Its a debate (for lack of better word) on the sins of Sodom.
Ok, here's my crack at it:
The people of the town were mean, depraved,uncompromisingly greedy. They hated foreigners coming into their city because they wanted to keep the wealth to themselves. They had pride, excess of food, and prospered with ease but refused to help the needy. They committed rapes and adultry among themselves. God finally had enough.
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Makes you wonder what will God do to the United States? 
