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Since Jesus told the disciples that from a certain point they would know and see the Father then he implied that they would have come from God at that point since only those who come from God see God. Jesus said; John 14 :6,7 "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you know me, you will know my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him.
I believe that Jesus was saying from the point in His ministry that He was at, that was the point in which a disciple would see the Father. In other words those who continue in His mission as He was sent would see the Father and know His word. These then would be from God ,sent by God, and given the same authority given to Jesus.
John 6:46 NRS
Not that anyone has seen the Father except the one who is from God; he has seen the Father.
Since Jesus told the disciples that from a certain point they would know and see the Father then he implied that they would have come from God at that point since only those who come from God see God. Jesus said; John 14 :6,7 "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you know me, you will know my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him.
I believe that Jesus was saying from the point in His ministry that He was at, that was the point in which a disciple would see the Father. In other words those who continue in His mission as He was sent would see the Father and know His word. These then would be from God ,sent by God, and given the same authority given to Jesus.
John 6:46 NRS
Not that anyone has seen the Father except the one who is from God; he has seen the Father.
Anyone care to agree or disagree, why?
Not has seen the Father in being, but has seen the image, through Jesus. Because Jesus did 0 of his own inititive--Jesus lives 24/7 to do his Father will. It is Jehovah' power that goes through Jesus that gives Jesus godlike qualities( Acts 2:22) Even in the last line of the Lord' prayer--Jesus tells everyone that the kingdom, power and glory all belong to the Father( Jehovah) As well Jesus teaches the Father is his God too. John 20:17, rev 3:12) Not too many will believe Jesus. That is why it is an ultra important thing to do is examine ones heart and ask themselves. Is my heart, instructing my brain to do this daily? John 4:22-24)
One goes through Jesus( learning and applying all his teachings) to get to the Father--Jehovah = psalm 83:18
Since Jesus told the disciples that from a certain point they would know and see the Father then he implied that they would have come from God at that point since only those who come from God see God. Jesus said; John 14 :6,7 "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you know me, you will know my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him.
I believe that Jesus was saying from the point in His ministry that He was at, that was the point in which a disciple would see the Father. In other words those who continue in His mission as He was sent would see the Father and know His word. These then would be from God ,sent by God, and given the same authority given to Jesus.
John 6:46 NRS
Not that anyone has seen the Father except the one who is from God; he has seen the Father.
Anyone care to agree or disagree, why?
The implications of what is said in Revelation 2 is a very astonishing Revelation.
To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’ —just as I have received authority from my Father. I will also give that one the morning star. Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
It says here that overcomers will be given the exact same promises that were given to Jesus by his father, and where Jesus has ruled the nations with an iron fist from WITHIN, this same promise is to overcomers.
What nations will the overcomers rule?
This promise that God gave to Jesus, Jesus gives to overcomers, and this promise is that an overcomer will go to a world and rule the nations like Jesus has ruled.
The promise says that God will say to you,'' This is my son in whom I am well pleased.''
The promise looks to show that God is preparing many sons to send down to many worlds to come and die, and then to rule the nations with a rod of Iron.{ how do I know? Because this is promised to overcomers, it was more than likely already promised to trillions, and the promise is revealed in that we came from heaven and were given a chance to rule the nations.}
If that is promised to overcomers, then it was always promised, and looking at the garden can easily show somebody having obtained that promise.
But where did we come from?
We came from heaven, we were as sons of God in heaven and we were sent down to this world as guiding spirits to rule a body.
Jesus obtained a bride by being pierced in his side just as a rib was taken from Adam.
Jesus was lain down in a sleep of death just like Adam was lain down in a sleep of death, but this spirit of Adam fell.
So there was a reason for a new spirit to come and be wed to flesh, a spirit that would rule the nations from within.
I would tell you that we are in fact, the third of heaven that fell with Satan.
A third of heaven ALWAYS falls, it has always fallen, and it will always fall in the future.
When things are coming to a close in this life, the Temple is measured, and people are that temple, but the outer court is not counted, the people are not counted, and they will fall because they remained in the outer court of Gentiles.
Now I know this is way out there in left field, but it is what I believe, and I came to this conclusion on my own, and after I had come to this conclusion, I found that Da Vinci came to the same conclusion, and he painted it.
Not that Da Vinci has to be right, but at least, I am in good company.
Just pure opinion, speculation but giving birth to a full grown son on firstfruits is not the same thing as being a saved bride.
Revelation 14 is 144,000 virgins giving birth to full grown men, and they alone, and this is the first resurrection for those who have raised a full grown man, and so the prophecy is fulfilled,'' A virgin will give birth.''
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 11-08-2014 at 04:24 PM..
If Only Jesus and Adam and Eve came from a direct creation as Jesus was the only begotten son of God and Adam and Eve where created by God ........Everyone else in the earth where Born in the earth with natural human parents including to literal statement that these people came from God , as they first came from the earth as they were born as human in the earth ...Just because the Word says they come from God does not mean that God created these people like He did Adam and Eve and Jesus .......Means that they surrendered their live to Jesus and became saved where they were in the family of God , then they came from God
Jesus was clearly speaking of Himself as 'the one and only begotten Son of God'; God's anointed Messiah (the Christ) and God-incarnate (in the flesh). In other places, He similarly said, "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father" and "I and the Father are one" (John 14:7-9 and John 10:30).
He was further saying that He was the one and only 'Son' sent from God; and that (from that point forward), there was no other way for anyone to come TO God, except through Him (Jesus Christ) ... the one Way whom God has provided.
Jesus was clearly speaking of Himself as 'the one and only begotten Son of God'; God's anointed Messiah (the Christ) and God-incarnate (in the flesh). In other places, He similarly said, "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father" and "I and the Father are one" (John 14:7-9 and John 10:30).
He was further saying that He was the one and only 'Son' sent from God; and that (from that point forward), there was no other way for anyone to come TO God, except through Him (Jesus Christ) ... the one Way whom God has provided.
Revelation 1
Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
Nisan 17 is the feast of first fruits, and Jesus had his side pierced where the water and blood went into the Earth and he was planted a seed in the Earth, and 3 days later, the Earth gave birth to her first son.
He was the very first of many sons to be born into the kingdom, when everyone who is in Christ will also give birth, and they likewise, follow the first born son into the new kingdom, as son, not brides, and that is the difference between first resurrection and waiting in fear of the second death.
To be born on firstfruit, directly states that you are born a son.
All things in their order.
1 Corinthians 15
Jesus the first, and many to follow.
The Order of Resurrection
…For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming, then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.
Only the overcomers give birth, and they give birth to fulfill the prophecy AGAIN,'' The virgin shall give birth.''
HERE ARE THE VIRGINS GIVING BIRTH, FIRST FRUITS TAKEN FROM ALL OF HISTORY.
ONLY THEM AND NOBODY ELSE, IF YOU ARE NOT COUNTED AMONGST THE TRIBES OF Israel.
You will not obtain the reward of first resurrection because you were not counted as Israel, the outer court is not counted, and that is why there is no Ephraim.
The Lamb and the 144,000
Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased.
Fact......A person cannot be called first fruits unless he has given birth, they are virgins giving birth.
Those 144,000 have gained a reward that is promised in many places, one of which is Revelation 2 when Jesus says that the overcomers{sons} will be given the same promises that God gave to his SON.
That they will receive the same promises that God gave to his son, Jesus likewise gives to his, SONS.
What are those promises?
Revelation 2
To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’ —just as I have received authority from my Father. I will also give that one the morning star. Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches
That is just one promise of 7 promises to 7 churches, and all those promises are very unique, and they are showing people gaining a reward that the majority do not achieve, if you follow Jezzebel, then your child will be killed.
If you become an overcomer, you give birth to a son, and a son is a spirit that dwells in a female, not a female dwelling in a male.
We are shown the differences of salvation and reward in many places.
The Living
Christ the Only Foundation
…Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work which he has built on it remains, He will receive a REWARD.
The dead.
If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.
One set of people died in the flames and they became ashes under the feet of those who were not touched by the flame.
The people who became ashes were still saved, but they were not given a body of incorruption.
The people who stood in the flames untouched by the fire were given what they had worked for, and they received the reward of first fruits.
They will rule with Messiah a thousand years while others will wait.
The difference between brides who have an extra vessel filled with oil is vastly different that brides who have no oil and in need to be told where to buy oil.
Hannibal Flavius -- I'm sorry, but, I'm not following your train of thought. Can you clarify/simplify your point or question relative to the OP or my response?
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