U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 09-18-2009, 02:13 PM
 
227 posts, read 296,412 times
Reputation: 17

Advertisements

It's impossible for our God to have a son GOD or human son


first cause when Jesus son of GOD as GOD not human:
1-in first case God sent us his messengers to obey him alone without partner (other God)
How he made Jesus his partner!!! How a God created another God??

and in this case we have a questions we must asked
How a God died in the cross like a cheat ....and that God begged his father to help him!!! ?
Where are the Power and the Dignity of Jesus and his father? "God died and God watch God dieing!!!"?

But you will say that Jesus died for the sins and special for the sin of Adam!!!!
In this case there are many question have to ask:
After thousands of Years and hundreds of Prophets, finally God remember that there was a sin of Adam
and should be the scrafice !!! NO WAY
Do you know why? Because Jesus came after thousands of years and many Prophets, why He (God) did tell (his prophets)them that it was sin (the sin of Adam) and they must pray God to clean it and the Problem will Gone...and Jesus stay alive

And in this case thousands of years God don't forgive the human being because the Adam's sin .... it not fair because we are innocent.... and in this case it may be God a scrafice for Satan's sin!!!!

And If God let his son dieing as sacrifice for the sin of Adam, it means that God preferred Abraham more then Jesus, when he did not let him slay his son ...because God saved Ishmael (in your religion Isaac) and did not saved Jesus

And how a God got out from a virgin of woman? And being a baby and grow up and eating and finally dieing
Why our God used human (Mary) to create another GOD ? why Mary was INTERMEDIATE
How Mary was transacted with Jesus as a human or a God, from the beginning "as he was baby"?
If he was a God he did not need to her milk
And finally all the Prophets of God have Miracles ...what is the special miracle of Jesus
If its a Miracle for you that he was created without male, God was created Adam without male and female, and created Eve without female
It means that God showed his Power when he creates with or without!!!!
And If God was did not save Jesus, may he will not save him in the next came!!!
And maybe the Jews will kill him again!!! Because they did that before!!!
And in this time he must dieing for the sin's of the Jews
What is the greatly sin, the sin of Adam "ate apple" or the sin of the Jews "killed Jesus"!!!!?


2-second cause
when Jesus son of God but he is human:
It's impossible that Jesus was a son of God as human because:
If an ant being a son of a man, Jesus will be the son of God....don't you see the universe and all the creation of God!!!!
What are we in this huge huge huge universe? The answer is we are so so so so small

in the end; I want to say that we the Muslims love Jesus and He is our Prophet also and this subject not hate or racism ...its for make the thing clear for you ...that God can create what he want by the way he want ...and he saved and Helped Jesus as he helped Prophet Ibrahim, Prophet Moses, and also Prophet Muhammad!!!

Last edited by insan777; 09-18-2009 at 03:43 PM..
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-18-2009, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Redding, Ca
1,240 posts, read 1,022,205 times
Reputation: 119
I am happy to respond to your post.

I can see by your words the level of understanding concerning God's work in our behalf.

The 7-day creation story is Gods work.

Within that 7-day story, God tells us how He created man to be in likeness to Himself, meaning, having the knowledge of good and evil and the ability to make choices between the two.

The consequence of that was separation, meaning there could be but only one God, not two and surely not many.

So, death of the soul was a consequence.

Now, since God placed us into that condition only He could take us out of that condition as well.

How? Well, you used the Ant to give your explanation so I will also use the Ant to explain what I mean.

My father once told me that if I were God and wanted to communicate with the ants how would I do it?

He said, I would have to become an Ant.

Yes, we had prophets for warnings and of events to come.

The warnings were for immediate response, and the future events pointed to the coming Ant, if we still using the Ant analogy.

The coming Ant (Jesus) a God Ant, came as God, meaning in Gods full power, and overcame all the Ants ills to make it possible for all the Ants to be saved.

This God Ant, in Ant form came to save the Ant (Adam) that was first created by He becoming a second Ant (Adam) with power over the Ant flesh, and save us.

If you can understand what I was trying to explain to you, you will see a picture of 1. God the Fathers work in the first creation, and God the Son's work in the second creation.

Both used the same 7-day creation time frame.

But Jesus condensed it into one day.

Blessings, AJ
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-19-2009, 07:31 AM
 
15 posts, read 9,841 times
Reputation: 10
be sure that when you tal about trinity you will remark that christians are soooo weak to give you an acceptible answer not a real one .Allah beside you brother .
you are in the right way
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-19-2009, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Redding, Ca
1,240 posts, read 1,022,205 times
Reputation: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by thewhiteangel View Post
be sure that when you talk about trinity you will remark that Christians are soooo weak to give you an acceptable answer not a real one .Allah beside you brother .
you are in the right way
Father God, created all there is.......can you agree with that?
Father Son, recreated it all in one day.........you won't agree with that.
Father the Holy Spirit can dwell simultaneously, individually, the world over.....can you agree with that?

If you can agree with all three, you have what the bible is all about.

It is about Gods work, not mankind.

Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three in the same, but in different applications.

If Allah is the name by which you address the first (Father), then the third (Spirit) of Allah has led you to say so.

If you do not have the third, you have all three.

If the love of God (Allah to you) rests in you, than the Spirit of Allah is in you.

Love Allah with all your heart, mind and soul and love your neighbor as you love yourself, and you shall be complete!

Blessings, AJ
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-21-2009, 08:42 AM
 
227 posts, read 296,412 times
Reputation: 17
the answers:
1-We agree
2-no we don't agree : because God created all the things , and also Jesus ....God created Jesus without male as he created Eve without female ( from Adam only) and God created Adam without male and female , and created us with female and male .... God told us in the Quran that he show his power ....when he created without or with all the things are the same for GOD ... there is no impossible for him !!!
Holy spirit is one of the Angels of God .... he called Gibrael
the translate of the word "Allah" is God , as in "Elohim" in herbew
3-
But i wrote in my subject more than 10 question ....you don't answer to any of them

God blesse you and guide you to the truth way ....
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-21-2009, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Redding, Ca
1,240 posts, read 1,022,205 times
Reputation: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by insan777 View Post
It's impossible for our God to have a son GOD or human son

Quote:
first cause when Jesus son of GOD as GOD not human:
Quote:
1-in first case God sent us his messengers to obey him alone without partner (other God)
How he made Jesus his partner!!! How a God created another God??
The difference between the first Adam and the second Adam is that the first Adam was created to inhabit flesh, the process which brought separation from God which, resulted in spiritual death of Adam.

That was passed on to all Adams offspring.

That creation period is told in a 7-day creation story as the works of God the Father.

In order for God to reverse the curse of the death sentence on humanity, God could only make the change, being in the form of a second Adam, but this time having the full power of the Godhead in Him as the only begotten Son of God.
What that does insan777, is give Jesus the authority with the power of God to conquer hell and death for mankind.
Hell is referred to as a holding place, a prison, a pit.
Death, spiritual death is dissannulled.

All that was done in one 24 hour day, the day that Jesus was first arrested, tried and hung on the cross.

Quote:
and in this case we have a questions we must asked
How a God died in the cross like a cheat ....and that God begged his father to help him!!! ?
Where are the Power and the Dignity of Jesus and his father? "God died and God watch God dieing!!!"?
First, you should understand that only God alone can save what He Himself created, for the creature has no saving power of it's own.
Having said that, Jesus, a direct representative of God, with full authority and power of God, acting in the place of God as God, allowed Himself to be placed under the rule of mankind, so that in so doing could conquer for mankind what only God alone could do.

There are ample references to give credit to what I just said. If you need them, I would be happy to supply them on another post.

When Jesus is crying out, "Why has though forsaken me" is the human part of the flesh crying out as a last an ending result of the flesh, because it is only to God's credit that He alone (God) is the Savior of the world and will not share His glory with any other person.

Quote:
But you will say that Jesus died for the sins and special for the sin of Adam!!!!
In this case there are many question have to ask:
After thousands of Years and hundreds of Prophets, finally God remember that there was a sin of Adam
and should be the scrafice !!! NO WAY
First you should understand what is considered to be the sin of Adam that Jesus came to remove, conquer and restore Adams spirit to life.

The sin of Adam is not disobedience, as a first act, but knowledge of good and evil giving Adam the power to make choices as like a god.
Being in a fleshly body makes being disobedience easy, for the lusts of the flesh are over powering.

You recall reading in the book of Genesis about another tree that was with held from Adam? Yes, the tree of life.

If after Adam had gained knowledge of good and evil,resulting in his spiritual death, the tree of life was then with held from him, lest Adam reach out and take of it and live forever.
That was done for another day on purpose.
Mankind was to experience life in the flesh but was not left alone to die an eternal death.
The tree of life came down from heaven to earth in the form of a second Adam, Jesus, with life to give, but not first removing the curse that existed.
He did that by paying the price of eternal death for mankind Himself alone, giving mankind absolutely no credit, but to God only.

Now, the question has to be asked, what about all the people who lived and died before Jesus came, and what is their status?
That is a very good question to ask because it explains why Jesus re-created the new heavens and the new earth in one day.

The heavens gates where shut, and hells gates were shut to where no man could open except God Himself.

Jesus, in full authority of the God head bodily, not only came in human form, but also died in human form, carrying with Him the sins of the world, being condemned to eternal death in hell.

Being in hell (prison where all souls went because as of yet, there was no salvation) Jesus visited them there, introduced Himself to them and they all immediately recognized Him as God, and were all liberated, and went to heaven.

Jesus alone as God then opened the heavens gates and the gates of hell, to where now there is no holding place any more, and heavens gates now remain open to all of us.

Quote:
Do you know why? Because Jesus came after thousands of years and many Prophets, why He (God) did tell (his prophets)them that it was sin (the sin of Adam) and they must pray God to clean it and the Problem will Gone...and Jesus stay alive
Mankind was to experience life first, to a certain point, before God would introduce Himself via speaking through first Abraham, prophets and last of all, Jesus.
All of them which pointed to the fulfillment of the coming Messiah, the salvation of God.

Unless God saves us, we are without hope, regardless of all our good attempts to gain heaven on our own.
If we, could gain heaven via our own works, then God would not be gloryified as God, but rather we would, and you and I know, that that is not going to happen.

Quote:
And in this case thousands of years God don't forgive the human being because the Adam's sin .... it not fair because we are innocent.... and in this case it may be God a sacrifice for Satan's sin!!!!
You are absolutely right, we are innocent of eternal condemnation, because we ourselves did not put ourselves in to that condition, but God did.
So that only makes God be the one at fault, which makes Him the only one that can remedy it; and which He did.

Quote:
And If God let his son dieing as sacrifice for the sin of Adam, it means that God preferred Abraham more then Jesus, when he did not let him slay his son ...because God saved Ishmael (in your religion Isaac) and did not saved Jesus
God introduction into mankind lives was through Abraham, which is considered to be a type of Christ, because Gods righteousness was reckoned to Abraham by faith.
That is why Abraham is considered the father of faith.
Abraham s a picture of God giving up His only begotten Son, sacrificing Him to gain the whole world unto Himself.
he real picture is Abraham as God the Father, Issac as mankind, and the sacrificial goat in the bush, as Gods Son Jesus.

It is God who sacrifices His only Son for all of us.

Quote:
And how a God got out from a virgin of woman? And being a baby and grow up and eating and finally dieing
Why our God used human (Mary) to create another GOD ? why Mary was INTERMEDIATE
How Mary was transacted with Jesus as a human or a God, from the beginning "as he was baby"?
If he was a God he did not need to her milk
Mary was just an instrument in God's hands to be the mother of the Son of all living. Making her, in a sense the mother of all living (Spiritual) as Eve was the mother of all flesh.(Dead spiritually)
Mary could not become with child through to male sperm, that is why she was found with child when she had not being with a man first.
So, technically, Jesus was conceived out of wedlock, making Jesus a bastard child by humanity.
You recall reading about King David doing the same thing with Bathsheba?
What5 was her child considered as?
And did not God take the child's life for no other reason than God's choice?
Similarly, Jesus was not accepted by His own but was as a bastard child.

Quote:
And finally all the Prophets of God have Miracles ...what is the special miracle of Jesus
If its a Miracle for you that he was created without male, God was created Adam without male and female, and created Eve without female
It means that God showed his Power when he creates with or without!!!!
And If God was did not save Jesus, may he will not save him in the next came!!!
And maybe the Jews will kill him again!!! Because they did that before!!!
And in this time he must dieing for the sin's of the Jews
What is the greatly sin, the sin of Adam "ate apple" or the sin of the Jews "killed Jesus"!!!!?
The miracle is that God came in the flesh! If one cannot believe that, then one is missing out in all the blessings of heaven while yet being alive on earth as a new creture of the heavenly kingdom.


Quote:
2-second cause
Quote:
when Jesus son of God but he is human:
It's impossible that Jesus was a son of God as human because:
If an ant being a son of a man, Jesus will be the son of God....don't you see the universe and all the creation of God!!!!
What are we in this huge huge huge universe? The answer is we are so so so so small
Son of man makes Jesus human, Son of God gives Him full power and authority to execute God's will o earth for all humanity.

Quote:
in the end; I want to say that we the Muslims love Jesus and He is our Prophet also and this subject not hate or racism ...its for make the thing clear for you ...that God can create what he want by the way he want ...and he saved and Helped Jesus as he helped Prophet Ibrahim, Prophet Moses, and also Prophet Muhammad!!!
If you have God's love in your heart as a Musim, and I have God's love as a Christian, then we are both brother and sisters with Jesus.

Blessings, AJ
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-21-2009, 12:31 PM
 
227 posts, read 296,412 times
Reputation: 17
I think you don't understand my point
these two question...I want to ask you again.... the "killing of Jesus " it a sin or not ?
the killers of Jesus comitte a sin or not ?


I need short answers
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-21-2009, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Redding, Ca
1,240 posts, read 1,022,205 times
Reputation: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by insan777 View Post
i want to ask you a question .... the "killing of Jesus " it a sin or not ?
Yes it was, but not a sin that bars the Jews from heaven, hence the suffering they still have to endure as a nation scattered around the world, yet redeemed as you and I are when applicable.

We, they are still responsible for our own sin making while in the flesh.
For the word says: "the wages of sin is death" and when dead physically, we sin no more.

Blessings, AJ
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-21-2009, 12:42 PM
 
227 posts, read 296,412 times
Reputation: 17
well ...we have the "ate of the appel" is a sin did by Adam , and we have a the sin " the killing of Jesus " did by the Romans or the jews
Now the question is very simple : what is the aweful sin between this two sins ?
i need short anwser
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-21-2009, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Redding, Ca
1,240 posts, read 1,022,205 times
Reputation: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by insan777 View Post
well ...we have the "ate of the appel" is a sin did by Adam , and we have a the sin " the killing of Jesus " did by the Romans or the jews
Now the question is very simple : what is the aweful sin between this two sins ?
i need short anwser
Sin is sin!

God in Jesus came to forgive sin, regardless of degree.

Blessings, AJ
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top