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People claim such obvious truth when it is not so obvious as they assert. First the phrase "unpardonable sin" is a religious catch phrase, nothing more, you can believe the institutions of men, if you like.
There is no reason to make an assumption based on words that are not in a verse.
Mt 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come.
That is a framework of time, there is no reference to "forever" it is the qualifying context to the word "never" in the passage concerning blasphemy.
It is all about seeing Gods Character. There is always hope with God under any circumstances, the circumstances may not be to our liking, but there is always hope.
31Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
There is the KJV language. Now it's true that the phrase, "unpardonable sin" does not appear there. It's become a convenient label for a sin that the Bible says will not be forgiven either in this world (finite), or in the world to come (infinite). So someone says for example, the word, "white" does not appear in the Bible, but another counters, "yes, but the phrase, 'the color of snow' does". Snow is white. Can we make this logical connection?
Last edited by thrillobyte; 06-26-2009 at 10:15 AM..
Reason: typo
I believe men do sin but that's not synonomous with men actually committing sin. That's what i get from the first part of your post. But then you say: The two seem like a contradiction. Maybe they aren't. Maybe I'm dense, but it's just not registering.
Did you read my post prior to the one you responded to? I explained it as best I could.
"men do sin" and "men committing sin" are synonomous.
"forgiving" and "overlooking a debt" are synonomous
"not forgiving" and "collecting a debt" are synonmous
"not forgiving" and "inifinite debt" are not synonmous
As I said. If I owe the bank $100,000 they can
a) forgive the debt, I pay nothing
b) not forgive the debt, I pay $100,000
I neither case am I paying the bank forever.
Ezekiel 16 which I provided in my earlier post is an example of God collecting (not overlooking or forgiving) a debt that was finite. They paid the debt but not forever.
There is the KJV language. Now it's true that the phrase, "unpardonable sin" does not appear there. It's become a convenient label for a sin that the Bible says will not be forgiven either in this world (finite), or in the world to come (infinite). So someone says for example, "the word, "white" does not appear in the Bible, but another counters, "yes, but the phrase, "the color of snow" does. Snow is white. Can we make this logical connection?
I would object more to the -able suffix. It's not that God is unable to pardon, it's that He will not pardon. Small point but limiting God's ability seems not quite right to me.
There is the KJV language. Now it's true that the phrase, "unpardonable sin" does not appear there. It's become a convenient label for a sin that the Bible says will not be forgiven either in this world (finite), or in the world to come (infinite). So someone says for example, "the word, "white" does not appear in the Bible, but another counters, "yes, but the phrase, "the color of snow" does. Snow is white. Can we make this logical connection?
The issue is not your logical connection, it is a simple disagreement over how we place things in context. It is as simple as that. It is not about the horrible rationalization you want to paint.
You put parentheses around the word "infinite" and apply that to the phrase "the world to come".
I UNDERSTAND that context, but I DISAGREE with you about it.
The verse with the phrase "The world to come" does not contain YOUR ADDITION (infinite) IT IS NOT THERE. So when you ADD that, I am under no scriptural obligation to see things YOUR way.
Did you read my post prior to the one you responded to? I explained it as best I could.
"men do sin" and "men committing sin" are synonomous.
"forgiving" and "overlooking a debt" are synonomous
"not forgiving" and "collecting a debt" are synonmous
"not forgiving" and "inifinite debt" are not synonmous
As I said. If I owe the bank $100,000 they can
a) forgive the debt, I pay nothing
b) not forgive the debt, I pay $100,000
I neither case am I paying the bank forever.
Ezekiel 16 which I provided in my earlier post is an example of God collecting (not overlooking or forgiving) a debt that was finite. They paid the debt but not forever.
Thank you for that point, it caused me to remember this passage in scripture.
Here it talks about being cast into prison, but it does not talk about being there forever, it talks about paying what it owed to get out.
Mt 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
Mt 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
Thank you for that point, it caused me to remember this passage in scripture.
Here it talks about being cast into prison, but it does not talk about being there forever, it talks about paying what it owed to get out.
Mt 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
Mt 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
Yes... here is another example of sin not forgiven (Lamentations 3:42).
We have transgressed and have rebelled: thou hast not pardoned. KJV
We have transgressed and rebelled, and you have not forgiven. ESV
We -- we have transgressed and rebelled, Thou -- Thou hast not forgiven. YLT
We have sinned and rebelled, and you have not forgiven us. NLT
We have sinned and rebelled and you have not forgiven NIV
This unforgiven sin did not carry an infinite punishment. In fact it says that God will not cast off indefinitely in the punishment of the children of men for their sin.
Lamenations 3:31 For the Lord will not cast off for ever: 32 But though he cause grief, yet will he have compassion according to the multitude of his mercies. 33 For he doth not afflict willingly nor grieve the children of men. 34 To crush under his feet all the prisoners of the earth, 35 To turn aside the right of a man before the face of the most High, 36 To subvert a man in his cause, the Lord approveth not. 37 Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not? 38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? 39 Wherefore doth a living man complain, a man for the punishment of his sins? 40 Let us search and try our ways, and turn again to the LORD. 41 Let us lift up our heart with our hands unto God in the heavens. 42 We have transgressed and have rebelled: thou hast not pardoned. 43 Thou hast covered with anger, and persecuted us: thou hast slain, thou hast not pitied.
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That's what i get from the first part of your post. But then you say: The two seem like a contradiction. Maybe they aren't. Maybe I'm dense, but it's just not registering.
