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Old 12-13-2009, 11:56 AM
 
Location: New Zealand
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If Jesus is the Jehovah in the OT and Jesus is not the Father are you saying that Jehovah in the OT is not the Father.

But what I read in the OT is that that Jehovah (the Father) will raise up Jesus (his Son)
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Old 12-13-2009, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
If Jesus is the Jehovah in the OT and Jesus is not the Father are you saying that Jehovah in the OT is not the Father.

But what I read in the OT is that that Jehovah (the Father) will raise up Jesus (his Son)
You are not asking me but in an effort to bump the thread secretly I would say I agree. Jehovah cannot be the son as he is the father unless the father and son are the same being, which doesn't make much sense.
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Old 12-13-2009, 12:33 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
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Thank you kat for your response Oh ...... and all comments/discussion welcome in the negative and positive too.
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Old 12-13-2009, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
Thank you kat for your response Oh ...... and all comments/discussion welcome in the negative and positive too.
One other thing I thought of is if the personal name of God is Jehovah, yehovah, yahweh...etc.. That name cannot be given to another, right? I mean the Jews think it is power to speak it. So how can it apply to a human being..

And how is the father Jehovah and the son Jehovah as well? Not only that but some say that the Holy Spirit and angels are Jesus in the OT as well... Perhaps Jesus is their God? But my God is not human or in human form, he is without substance.
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Old 12-13-2009, 02:19 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
If Jesus is the Jehovah in the OT and Jesus is not the Father are you saying that Jehovah in the OT is not the Father.

But what I read in the OT is that that Jehovah (the Father) will raise up Jesus (his Son)
The Tetragrammaton JHWH or JEHOVAH refers to any single Member of the Trinity.

The name Jehovah is used of God the Father (Jeremiah 23:5), and God the Son--Jesus Christ (Jeremiah 23:6), and for the Holy Spirit (Isa. 61:1; 2 Cor. 3:17).

God is three separate Persons who each possess the exact same attributes or essence.

Trinity=Three in Person/One in essence=One God. A unified One.

Three Persons= God the Father, God the Son--Jesus Christ, God the Holy Spirit

One Essence= Sovereignty, Righteousness, Justice, Love, Eternal Life, Omniscience, Omnipresence, Omnipotence, Immutability, Veracity.
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Old 12-13-2009, 03:10 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
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Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The Tetragrammaton JHWH or JEHOVAH refers to any single Member of the Trinity.

The name Jehovah is used of God the Father (Jeremiah 23:5), and God the Son--Jesus Christ (Jeremiah 23:6), and for the Holy Spirit (Isa. 61:1; 2 Cor. 3:17).

God is three separate Persons who each possess the exact same attributes or essence.

Trinity=Three in Person/One in essence=One God. A unified One.

Three Persons= God the Father, God the Son--Jesus Christ, God the Holy Spirit

One Essence= Sovereignty, Righteousness, Justice, Love, Eternal Life, Omniscience, Omnipresence, Omnipotence, Immutability, Veracity.

I dunno about the Jer 23:6 reference where it says "called" --- is the gist more that he (Jesus) is bidden by or called forth by, or calls upon, the lord (God) of righteousness.

The context of this is that Jehovah (God) will raise up a king

Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD (Jehovah), that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.


H7121
קרא
qârâ'
kaw-raw'
A primitive root (rather identical with H7122 through the idea of accosting a person met); to call out to (that is, properly address by name, but used in a wide variety of applications): - bewray [self], that are bidden, call (for, forth, self, upon), cry (unto), (be) famous, guest, invite, mention, (give) name, preach, (make) proclaim (-ation), pronounce, publish, read, renowned, say.


Jesus says that he is given everything by the father and that he does nothing on his own ---
if I give you something, you do not have it before I give it to you.
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Old 12-13-2009, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Jer 23:6 the text is referring to the branch, who is the subject as is called יהוה צדקנו Yĕhovah tsidqenuw - who is God as Jesus Christ.
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Old 12-13-2009, 04:01 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
I dunno about the Jer 23:6 reference where it says "called" --- is the gist more that he (Jesus) is bidden by or called forth by, or calls upon, the lord (God) of righteousness.

The context of this is that Jehovah (God) will raise up a king

Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD (Jehovah), that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.


H7121
קרא
qârâ'
kaw-raw'
A primitive root (rather identical with H7122 through the idea of accosting a person met); to call out to (that is, properly address by name, but used in a wide variety of applications): - bewray [self], that are bidden, call (for, forth, self, upon), cry (unto), (be) famous, guest, invite, mention, (give) name, preach, (make) proclaim (-ation), pronounce, publish, read, renowned, say.


Jesus says that he is given everything by the father and that he does nothing on his own ---
if I give you something, you do not have it before I give it to you.
Jeremiah 23:6 ''...and this is His name by which He will be called, 'The LORD-Yahweh-Jehovah' our righteousness.''

This is a reference to Jesus Christ who is here referred to as Yahweh or Jehovah by God the Father who is mentioned in verse 5, who is also called Jehovah.

Any one of the three members of the Godhead are properly called Jehovah. Or more perhaps more accurately, Yahweh. Apparently, the proper pronunciation of the name has been lost because Israel refused to use it because of its holiness.
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Old 12-13-2009, 06:15 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
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Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Jer 23:6 the text is referring to the branch, who is the subject as is called יהוה צדקנו Yĕhovah tsidqenuw - who is God as Jesus Christ.
And the same phrasing in Jer 33:16 except it is about Jerusalem

Jer 33:16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.
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Old 12-13-2009, 07:50 PM
 
2,981 posts, read 5,467,928 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
If Jesus is the Jehovah in the OT and Jesus is not the Father are you saying that Jehovah in the OT is not the Father.

But what I read in the OT is that that Jehovah (the Father) will raise up Jesus (his Son)
YHWH is the uncreated self existing One whose name, "YHWH", means "Life/Breath". YHWH exists in three persons, and one of them -YHWH who is the Word- is come incarnate as Kinsman/Redeemer to Adam.
To understand multiplicities of persons or individuals in single kinds, just look at creation.
Your question is on the level of/the same sort of asking; "How can the female Adam person be Adam if the male Adam person is Adam"? -in Genesis 5:2, where it is written; "male and female made He them, and called their name "Adam".
Adam is the name of the created human beiong "kind", and YHWH is the name of the uncreated self existing LIFE/BREATH kind.
In the Bible [and out of it], there are persons multiplied in Adam, as Adam was commanded to do, and YHWH is a fixed multiplicity of three Persons.
I hope that helps your studies to be enlightened as you seek to understand the Creator by looking at the creation.
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