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Good question. I don't really know. But if we were truly infinite, wouldn't we be "gods"? I don't think we will be equal to God. Our lifespan will be infinite, but other than that, who knows.
Quick comment: This question in and of itself begs the question.. Can we be infinite spiritually? I think so. Then we would be as the angels... not necessarily gods.
I think of it as if we are all made of energy (spirit) and the sun can represent an eternal God (holy spirit). If we die, our energy returns to the sun...where it came from.
something like that....but who knows what really happens or whether we will be conscience or what... In that I am truly ignorant.
IMO - The lake of fire is a spiritual fire. Remember that only death, hades and those not written in the book of life are found there according to Rev. 20. The other lake of fire shown has added sulfur...
Not sure of the difference but there seems to be one. We are changed by going through fire. Death loses its hold on us, as does sin. Whether this happens now, later, and/or when we physically die.. I don't know. Perhaps the sequence of events is dependant on the person.
However, I think it is a spiritual thing that aids in the perishable becoming imperishable so that all are able to enter into the kingdom. whether the kingdom be a literal heaven or a spiritual state while living. That I cannot say, nor, in my mind does the exact nature of the lake of fire matter much in the grand scheme of things.
Pretty much agree with you here. Personally, I'm not sure if the Lake of fire is now in this life, or something that happens after a person dies, after resurrection.
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IMO- I see in Rev 20 and 1 cor. 15. a timeline of things "to come". They seem to agree on the sequence. I think they were "to come" as opposed to are "to come" now.
The millenial reign comes before the city is surrounded but after the firstfruits/elect are raised to govern. I see the disciples, followers of Jesus in that time, as the firstfruits/elect. They judged/reigned over their peers.
The 1000 years are over then the city is surrounded.. this I equate to 70ad when the temple where sacrifice of animals was practiced was destroyed/desecrated. For nearly 3.5 years people were trapped in the city.. That had to have been awful! Talk about satan being loosed! Those that took part in the first resurrection (Rev 20) would not have had to endure it. Also, those that listened to Jesus and fled (matt 24 I believe) would have been properly warned and saved from it.
Then we come to the resurrection of the rest of the dead and the second death. and boom... right into the new heavens, new earth, and new city.
I believe these are all spiritual things happening. The exception would be the city that was actually distroyed but then it was foretold since Moses!
I don't have all the answers, but...
Interesting. Things I have considered myself. But currently I see the reign as future. I suppose it could be now... can't figure it all out though.
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I don't think the elect is us in 2009. It was those who endured and were killed during the persecution of Jesus and his followers. The non-elect are just your average joe, jew and gentile.
Ok. I differ with you here. But I could be wrong.
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Well, now this is something I have heard others say about UR... I don't believe that it is the repentance that saves us but rather it is Christs blood that saves us. In other words, being repentant for one's sins produces actions of love. This applies to every life and makes for a good life to live. However, being repentant and believing do not save. The blood washed away the sins, not the repentantness or the belief.
Does that make sense?
You may be right. I agree it is Christ's blood that saves. I see it like this: as part of that salvation process, the person will repent. Either now in this life, or later. It may take a split second, or it may take a longer time.
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So to me it is already done. You can live your life repentant of sin and changed here and now. or you are changed when confronted by the truth of the blood, the fire, ie Jesus upon death. I chose to be repentant and changed here and now because it makes a better life for me. Some are repentant and changed and have absolutely no belief in God. Does that mean I am more repentant to sin or changed? Does that mean my belief entitles me to something special? Don't know... I don't want to believe so.
Sin is sin. if you live your life to the best of your ability and temper everything with Love... who am I to challenge the blood of Christ's power over your eternal destiny? The truth still stands. The blood washes away the sin. IMHO
Hope that helped... I didn't get into too much scripture as I am pressed for time and you did ask for my opinion but later tonight I may be able to list the scripture that leads me to believe this way. If it is neccessary.
Thanks Kat, exactly what I wanted! I agree with a lot of what you say. And some of the other stuff I'm not sure on, I just need to study it more. Sometimes you look at scripture and it seems like it could go either way. Lake of fire now? This life is the lake of fire? Maybe. Not sure.
The important part is Jesus will be 100% successful - all will be saved! Its glorious!
God will always be above His Children. He is the Creator and Christ is Our Teacher. And, yes, you can be infinite spiritually so long as when you are human you have Christ Jesus as your Light. For His Light shines forever.
Good question. I don't really know. But if we were truly infinite, wouldn't we be "gods"?
I don't think so. If Paul says, "We shall be like Him (Jesus)" that can certainly imply that we won't take on Jesus' Deity, but we can certainly be granted eternal life in that our glorified bodies are not subject to decay, hence they go on forever. Course that's basically what you said.
Pretty much agree with you here. Personally, I'm not sure if the Lake of fire is now in this life, or something that happens after a person dies, after resurrection.
Interesting. Things I have considered myself. But currently I see the reign as future. I suppose it could be now... can't figure it all out though.
Ok. I differ with you here. But I could be wrong.
You may be right. I agree it is Christ's blood that saves. I see it like this: as part of that salvation process, the person will repent. Either now in this life, or later. It may take a split second, or it may take a longer time.
Thanks Kat, exactly what I wanted! I agree with a lot of what you say. And some of the other stuff I'm not sure on, I just need to study it more. Sometimes you look at scripture and it seems like it could go either way. Lake of fire now? This life is the lake of fire? Maybe. Not sure.
The important part is Jesus will be 100% successful - all will be saved! Its glorious!
You are welcome! I don't have any of the answers but what I believe doesn't seem to contradict any scripture so I feel good. The details are sketchy in places but hey... we will all be saved.
I mean don't you believe that our consciousness goes on in some form after death ?
I don't propose to know really... I mean there was a guy on here joking (I hope) about a device to take with you so you can communicate from heaven... now that would help!
But really, I picture the heaven I was taught as a child... pearly gates, no crying, mansions, etc... and as an adult I just can't see it as a literal place. In Rev. 20 the earth and sky fled from the throne of God... so I'm thinking it's gotta be a purely spiritual place that has no substance. That said... can I say we will be conscious? Well, I would say sure... that is my hope.
But in reality, what would there be to do? all I can imagine is an earth-like form of society that is Good and peaceful. While ideal, it would be just like earth not real spiritual. Or on the other hand, maybe I should just wait and see?
So IMO I believe the consciousness goes somewhere... I just don't know why you would need to be conscious and experiencing it. So I'm gonna have to just live without that knowledge for now I guess. Which is why I say.. when you are dead, you are dead.
Live life to the fullest during our short stay, because after this.... well only God knows
Live life to the fullest during our short stay, because after this.... well only God knows
You're an interesting person, kat--you've got many intriguing, unconventional ideas about scripture. Sometimes you sound Christian, then suddenly you sound Buddist or Hindu and then agnostic. Truly chameleon. Not meant to be insulting--just an innocent observation.
You're an interesting person, kat--you've got many intriguing, unconventional ideas about scripture. Sometimes you sound Christian, then suddenly you sound Buddist or Hindu and then agnostic. Truly chameleon. Not meant to be insulting--just an innocent observation.
I haven't come up with a label for myself yet either.
I have settled on: Preterist Unitarian Theistical Agnostic with tendencies toward rational thought through open-mindedness... Although I don't think theistical is actually a word.. but then by using it anyway it kinda fits well with my label
BTW- I'm not insulted at all... rather thank you for the compliment! I love to study the bible and apply it to my spiritual life. I love to study religion and its intricacies. Human behavior intrigues me. It's most hilarious when I try to take a personality test... the results are so close to the middle of everything that I can't take the test again because the outcome will change. Not saying I'm wishy washy just that I am "different." Religion has no hold on me. I live to love others as myself and love God. (not necessarily in that order LOL)
Very good questions! Although I'd say if anyone can answer them, don't believe them.
My simple theory... nothing happens.
The bible's teaches that its own teachings weren't meant for after death. Matt 22:32, Mark 12:27, Luke 20:38, The sadducees asked a question about the resurrection and what came after. Jesus said God is the God of the living not the dead.
God's word helps you in this life to make for yourself a better life. Not a better death. When you are dead, you are dead.
Hey kat, I, like lego, believe in some of the preterist views. I notice you said that you are not sure if we have consciousness after death, and that all of Christ teachings concerned us now in this present age or while we are physically alive now on this earth. I wanted to get your thoughts on the following verse and what it means to you. Thanks.
Matthew 22: 30 for in the rising again they do not marry, nor are they given in marriage, but are as messengers of God in heaven.
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