Why do some people say that Catholics aren't christians? (procreation, Sodom, women)
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I was merely pointing out that Catholicism never believed protestants were going to heaven, oh through the years the Catholic church mellowed out in their accusations of heresy by whatever reason either the image of the Catholic church etc....I don't know but the protestants have never changed their views so how all of a sudden now does the Vatican think protestants are on the same page with them and going to heaven?
Let's be honest....Catholicism does not think protestants are Christian.....why did they burn protestants at the stake?
Why did protestants do the same? I went to Catholic School for twelve years, the only protestant group any of my teachers (only one of them to be exact) had trouble calling Christians were Mormons, and that's because of how extremely different they are.
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Originally Posted by lifesigns64
There are Catholics, Protestants, Baptists, and people who are from every denomination who are Christians.
The majority of my family is Catholic, and I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school from K-12.
I believe that I was "taught" more doctrine and the traditions of "men", rather than the gospel of grace.
It was when I started to grow closer to God, and reading the bible, that I realized that there were many contradictions to God's word being shared.
The poster's above mentioned the specific, like confessing to a Priest, or calling a "man" Father, and the praying to saints. There is only ONE mediator, and only ONE who mediates, and that is our Lord, Jesus Christ. He will rightly judge me . . . it seemed very contradictory to the Word of God to give confession to a Priest, and have him judge me and give me Penance to do . . . also, the praying I grew up with was rote, and didn't seem Spirit led or heartfelt . . such as praying the Rosary, 10 Hail Mary's, One Glory Be, One Our Father . . . over and over, like chanting, somehow it became a time of mouthing words while daydreaming . . . and not an intimate time of praise and worship and prayer.
Yes there is only ONE, but one still needs a guide to help them understand God. When one takes a course in school, do your teach yourself, or do you have someone guide you? However, as the saying goes "to each his own" you don't find these things necessary, so you left and I respect that highly. In fact, our teachers in high school encouraged us to seek out which religion is best for us, even if it's not Catholicism. They would rather see us all become devout Buddhists than Catholics blindly following the faith of their fathers. Personally, I find solace in the repetition of the Rosary, reflecting on the mysteries and hearing the familiar words. I must say though, that the largest problem with traditional prayer is that people do tend to just mouth it/go along with it. Personally, whenever I'm scared, the one thing that always calms me down is singing the hymn "Immaculate Mary".
Also, a lot of the tradition in the Catholic Church has to do with showing respect for God. They do acknowledge that it is not needed, but that it is a sign of respect. To say mass one only needs three things, a priest, a crumb of bread, and a drop of wine.
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Originally Posted by 95theses
Spot on correct my friend!!!
As an avid student of the Reformation, I urge everyone to follow suit and see why the Lord used Luther to protest Catholic doctrine.
Very simple answer my friend, because the church (at that time) was really freaking corrupt. In fact, Martin Luther did not want to separate, but to reform the church.
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist
Let me rephrase this, we believe we are saved by grace alone through faith alone.
But if you really think about it, what is faith without action?
Why did protestants do the same? I went to Catholic School for twelve years, the only protestant group any of my teachers (only one of them to be exact) had trouble calling Christians were Mormons, and that's because of how extremely different they are.
I have never condoned the actions of protestants that did that. I am only pointing out that if we thought we were all Christians we wouldn't have accused one another of heresy. What has changed? it certainly isn't our views.
and to answer your question of faith with out works. We believe works is evidenced that one is saved or has faith but we do not do works in order to obtain salvation
Very simple answer my friend, because the church (at that time) was really freaking corrupt. In fact, Martin Luther did not want to separate, but to reform the church.
And what is so different today from then?
Your church is filled with pedophiles run by a pope who protect(s)ed them.
Many of your priests are homosexuals.
Lucky for me, being an altar boy, I was never molested but by older brothers two boys were by a priest. And they just shuttled that priest to another place ripe with pubescent boys.
I have never condoned the actions of protestants that did that. I am only pointing out that if we thought we were all Christians we wouldn't have accused one another of heresy. What has changed? it certainly isn't our views.
and to answer your question of faith with out works. We believe works is evidenced that one is saved or has faith but we do not do works in order to obtain salvation
To the first part agreed, sort of. If we had all ACTED like the Christians we say we are we wouldn't have. I don't think accusing one of heresy is necessarily saying that one is not a christian.
One must still act upon that faith every day in their life, does this mean that after I'm "saved" I can go about killing, raping, and pillaging? No, one is expected to lead a life based on their faith. To me, this sounds like works + faith. Like I said before, one is reminding you, the other one assumes you can figure it out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
And what is so different today from then?
Your church is filled with pedophiles run by a pope who protect(s)ed them.
Many of your priests are homosexuals.
Lucky for me, being an altar boy, I was never molested but by older brothers two boys were by a priest. And they just shuttled that priest to another place ripe with pubescent boys.
And the Jews are hording all the worlds money, all Italians are in the mob, if they're a minority they must be a criminal, and all Muslims want to kill all the "infidels" at any cost. Do you really believe that the R.C. Church has more pedophiles than other churches? Statistically, no. It's more publicized because the media hold the R.C. Church to a much higher stranded. Personally, as a former alter boy, I've never once been worried about being touched by a priest, and the same goes for all of my friends who sever as well. Also, it doesn't matter what the priest's sexuality is anyway, being that they can't marry irregardless of if it's a man or a women. So personally I see that as (1.) irrelevant, and (2.) prejudiced toward homosexuals.
What is different today from the church at the time of the Reformation, is that it is no longer directly involved in politics. You don't have counts, barons etc. buying bishops, making death threats, and forcing certain things upon the church to suit their own needs. The church has it's imperfections as do all things ruled by men.
Last edited by jknic; 11-18-2009 at 02:27 PM..
Reason: forgot to address part of quote
Hail Mary...confession....praying to saints....acting like the pope dude is god....purgatory....Okay I know I am not a Christian. But I used to be. And it seems like all these things are againts what the Bible actually teaches. Especially the praying to saints thing! The Bible says that Jesus is the mediator...not saint whatshisname.
You hit the nail on the head of why I'm becoming disillusioned with Catholicism. Especially now that my son is supposed to receive first penance and communion this year, and the fact that in penance they make them say the Act of Contrition which essentially tells little kids that they're going to hell if they don't confess whatever things they did bad (hardly sins at age 7). I converted to the Catholic church as an adult, and if I knoew they scared kids into going to hell if they don't follow the rituals, I definitely would have had second thoughts about joining.
You hit the nail on the head of why I'm becoming disillusioned with Catholicism. Especially now that my son is supposed to receive first penance and communion this year, and the fact that in penance they make them say the Act of Contrition which essentially tells little kids that they're going to hell if they don't confess whatever things they did bad (hardly sins at age 7). I converted to the Catholic church as an adult, and if I knoew they scared kids into going to hell if they don't follow the rituals, I definitely would have had second thoughts about joining.
Just out of curiosity, what religion were you raised and what version of the act of contrition did your son learn? You son could simply say, Oh my God, I am sorry for my sins, Amen and that would be just as valid during confession. Make sure you find a good CCD or Catholic school so he learns WHY he should be Catholic, and not just the motions. I know some people who had crappy CCD teachers and were amazed with the things we told them about learning in school.
To the first part agreed, sort of. If we had all ACTED like the Christians we say we are we wouldn't have. I don't think accusing one of heresy is necessarily saying that one is not a christian.
One must still act upon that faith every day in their life, does this mean that after I'm "saved" I can go about killing, raping, and pillaging? No, one is expected to lead a life based on their faith. To me, this sounds like works + faith. Like I said before, one is reminding you, the other one assumes you can figure it out.
And the Jews are hording all the worlds money, all Italians are in the mob, if they're a minority they must be a criminal, and all Muslims want to kill all the "infidels" at any cost. Do you really believe that the R.C. Church has more pedophiles than other churches? Statistically, no. It's more publicized because the media hold the R.C. Church to a much higher stranded. Personally, as a former alter boy, I've never once been worried about being touched by a priest, and the same goes for all of my friends who sever as well. Also, it doesn't matter what the priest's sexuality is anyway, being that they can't marry irregardless of if it's a man or a women. So personally I see that as (1.) irrelevant, and (2.) prejudiced toward homosexuals.
What is different today from the church at the time of the Reformation, is that it is no longer directly involved in politics. You don't have counts, barons etc. buying bishops, making death threats, and forcing certain things upon the church to suit their own needs. The church has it's imperfections as do all things ruled by men.
You make glaring overstatement I never made as if I made them.
In the first plact, the Catholic church of the middle ages was not all homosexual, nor were they all murderers etc.
You deflect away from the seriousness of the fact that Natzinger . . . err, I mean Ratzinger protected pedophiles and probably still does by the laws he instuted and the buck stopped with him prior to becoming pope and after as to what was to be done with the sodomizer priest.
In the days of luther there were many homosexuals in the Catholic church too and they too were protected.
You bet I am prejudiced toward homosexuals in leadership positions in any church including the Catholic. Why? Because God gave them over to being homosexuals due to not having Him in proper recognition. Read Romans 1:19-28. So why would you want someone teaching you about God when God gave them over to homosexuality for not having Him in proper recognition in the first place.
Last edited by Eusebius; 11-18-2009 at 02:49 PM..
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