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I have been reading a lot of different posts lately about eternal torture in hell which got me to thinking about studying this topic more thoroughly. I would like to give you a little bit of background about me I became a believer at 16 and been in church most of my life and like some of you I was taught that ET was forever. I am 75 years young and in all my years in church I don't remember reading and understanding these scriptures. The Bible teaches that there are only two possible destinations for each of us, life or death.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
God so loved us that Jesus came to this earth to die the death that we deserve so that we could receive the gift of eternal life. Eternal life, or immortality, is a gift to those who choose to receive Jesus as their Lord and Savior. Jesus is our only hope of immortality.
1Ti 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
All six references to immortality are either a description of God or describe a gift that is given to man from God, immortality is not an inherent aspect of man.
The Bible teaches that man is mortal.
Job 4:17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
2Co 4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
According to the Bible our mortal flesh will be changed when Jesus returns the second time.
In order for the unbeliever to go into the lake of fire and be tortured for eternity they must have immortality. Can anyone in this forum tie together the unbeliever and immortality? I'm still studying on this subject but it's hard to refute the Scriptures that I have written here.
In order for the unbeliever to go into the lake of fire and be tortured for eternity they must have immortality. Can anyone in this forum tie together the unbeliever and immortality? I'm still studying on this subject but it's hard to refute the Scriptures that I have written here.
Born-again Jerry
I could not tie the two together, which is why universalism was so appealing to me. But the more I grew, the more I was given to the thoughts that not all are simply meant to live.
Jesus came for the "Lost sheep of the house of Israel". Yes, we can be grafted into this, blessed be His Name, and we are. But, bottom line is not everyone will put on immortality, which means they will die, forever.
They will be raised up to stand in judgement, but then the lake awaits those who are not written in His Book of Life, which is Jesus Christ, who is Life. Revelations calls this the second death. I believe it.
I have been reading a lot of different posts lately about eternal torture in hell which got me to thinking about studying this topic more thoroughly. I would like to give you a little bit of background about me I became a believer at 16 and been in church most of my life and like some of you I was taught that ET was forever. I am 75 years young and in all my years in church I don't remember reading and understanding these scriptures. The Bible teaches that there are only two possible destinations for each of us, life or death.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
God so loved us that Jesus came to this earth to die the death that we deserve so that we could receive the gift of eternal life. Eternal life, or immortality, is a gift to those who choose to receive Jesus as their Lord and Savior. Jesus is our only hope of immortality.
1Ti 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
All six references to immortality are either a description of God or describe a gift that is given to man from God, immortality is not an inherent aspect of man.
The Bible teaches that man is mortal.
Job 4:17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
2Co 4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
According to the Bible our mortal flesh will be changed when Jesus returns the second time.
In order for the unbeliever to go into the lake of fire and be tortured for eternity they must have immortality. Can anyone in this forum tie together the unbeliever and immortality? I'm still studying on this subject but it's hard to refute the Scriptures that I have written here.
Born-again Jerry
The body is mortal, but the soul is immortal. Just as the believers body will be resurrected, so also will the body of the unbeliever be resurrected and then he will be cast into the lake of fire. Daniel 12:2 and John 5:28-29 both speak of the resurrection of the unbeliever.
Daniel 12:2 ''And many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.'
John 5:28-29 ''Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming in which all who are in the tombs shall hear His voice, 29) and shall come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.' The word 'deeds' is not found in the orginal language. 'Those who did the good' refers to believers and 'those who committed the evil' refers to unbelievers. And it is the body that is resurrected. Not the soul.
If you'll go to Revelation 20:4 you will see that the souls of believers who have died go to Heaven. ''And I saw thrones and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them; And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.'
In his vision, John in Rev. 20:4 is seeing the souls of the Tribulational martyrs who are in Heaven and. who are about to be resurrected (their bodies)
When the Bible talks about spiritual death it refers to being separated from God in time. When it talks about the second death as in Revelation 20:14, it is a reference to being separated from God for all eternity. 'Perish' or 'destruction' as it refers to the unbeliever does not mean cessation of existance but rather it refers to a conscious state of ruin and uselessness in the lake of fire.
If you will go to this link and page down about 3/4 of the way down, you will see a definition for the word Perish which is APOLLUMI in the Greek.
Immediately after death, the soul of the unbeliever goes into Hades. But that is only a temporary place. At the end of the Millennium, all unbelievers will be resurrected up from Hades (Luke 16:19-31) and stand before the Great White Throne judgment of Christ (Revelation 20:11-15) and then cast into the lake of fire.
The tie is that death is not the end of exsistance. The soul as it was created never was meant to exist outside the body.
Life and death are everlasting in the world to come. To have life in Heaven is to exist with and in the presence of God, His love and mercy. Death is to exist seperate from God, His love and mercy.
The devil exists seperate from God, his love and mercy. He will exist forever in that state because of his rebellion. Those angles who follow him no share his same fate. That fate is now for those humans who listen to him instead of God.
It is because of God's mercy, the two still coexist. Jesus tells us about this in The Parable of the Weeds. (Matthew 13:24-30)
Why are so many people baffeled about hell, damnation, eternal life with God? Because they are fullfilling the prophecy as Jesus said:
"In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: " 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
For this people's heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes."
The tie is that death is not the end of exsistance. The soul as it was created never was meant to exist outside the body.
Life and death are everlasting in the world to come. To have life in Heaven is to exist with and in the presence of God, His love and mercy. Death is to exist seperate from God, His love and mercy.
The devil exists seperate from God, his love and mercy. He will exist forever in that state because of his rebellion. Those angles who follow him no share his same fate. That fate is now for those humans who listen to him instead of God.
It is because of God's mercy, the two still coexist. Jesus tells us about this in The Parable of the Weeds. (Matthew 13:24-30)
Why are so many people baffeled about hell, damnation, eternal life with God? Because they are fullfilling the prophecy as Jesus said:
"In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: " 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes."
"Those angles who follow him no share his same fate." should read
"Those angles who follow him share his same fate."
"Those angles who follow him no share his same fate." should read
"Those angles who follow him share his same fate."
oopps
Well, I'm uncertain and not particularly concerned as to the fate of angles. But of more concern is the fate of angels. Although the thought of a lost triangle does make me sad.
I have been reading a lot of different posts lately about eternal torture in hell which got me to thinking about studying this topic more thoroughly. ............
God so loved us that Jesus came to this earth to die the death that we deserve so that we could receive the gift of eternal life. Eternal life, or immortality, is a gift to those who choose to receive Jesus as their Lord and Savior. Jesus is our only hope of immortality...............
In order for the unbeliever to go into the lake of fire and be tortured for eternity they must have immortality. Can anyone in this forum tie together the unbeliever and immortality? I'm still studying on this subject but it's hard to refute the Scriptures that I have written here..............
Born-again Jerry
There is this misconception that when we receive eternal life that this means immortality, it doesn't, when one receives eternal life simply means receiving Jesus Christ. Jesus is eternal life (I am the truth, the life and the way) Jesus is eternal and He is the life.
God created human beings to be eternal, we are eternal beings regardless if we receive Christ or not.
I have been reading a lot of different posts lately about eternal torture in hell which got me to thinking about studying this topic more thoroughly. I would like to give you a little bit of background about me I became a believer at 16 and been in church most of my life and like some of you I was taught that ET was forever. I am 75 years young and in all my years in church I don't remember reading and understanding these scriptures. The Bible teaches that there are only two possible destinations for each of us, life or death.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
God so loved us that Jesus came to this earth to die the death that we deserve so that we could receive the gift of eternal life. Eternal life, or immortality, is a gift to those who choose to receive Jesus as their Lord and Savior. Jesus is our only hope of immortality.
1Ti 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
All six references to immortality are either a description of God or describe a gift that is given to man from God, immortality is not an inherent aspect of man.
The Bible teaches that man is mortal.
Job 4:17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
2Co 4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
According to the Bible our mortal flesh will be changed when Jesus returns the second time.
In order for the unbeliever to go into the lake of fire and be tortured for eternity they must have immortality. Can anyone in this forum tie together the unbeliever and immortality? I'm still studying on this subject but it's hard to refute the Scriptures that I have written here.
Born-again Jerry
I have thought on that previously too and came to the conclusion that unbelief is of the flesh, along with all sin which is destined for the second death -----
Resurrection is about being raised from death (the second death is death)
All life on the earth has a spirit, and that spirit is immortal from birth, ,,,,Animals have a spirits., people have a spirits,,, I do not know if plants have spirits, but they were created by the Lord God who is Spirit,,, and the immortal in the Word of God partains to life with the Lord God forevermore,,,,People who are lost to the Lord God have an everlasting spirit that will be sparated from the Lord God forevermore, sad as that is....... People have a lot of comments on hell and against hell.,,, if that a passion of yours than you should go out and help people get to know the Lord God through Jesus and his spirit,,, this may be your calling seek to face of God of this.
The tie is that death is not the end of exsistance. The soul as it was created never was meant to exist outside the body.
Life and death are everlasting in the world to come. To have life in Heaven is to exist with and in the presence of God, His love and mercy. Death is to exist seperate from God, His love and mercy.
The devil exists seperate from God, his love and mercy. He will exist forever in that state because of his rebellion. Those angles who follow him no share his same fate. That fate is now for those humans who listen to him instead of God.
It is because of God's mercy, the two still coexist. Jesus tells us about this in The Parable of the Weeds. (Matthew 13:24-30)
Why are so many people baffeled about hell, damnation, eternal life with God? Because they are fullfilling the prophecy as Jesus said:
"In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: " 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
For this people's heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes."
Twin..
This was the commission of Isaiah... do you know what they were not understanding?
Anyone could apply that passage to anyone else.. but it really only applies to those it was spoken to.. don't you think?
Otherwise it is just as if you are saying you have more knowledge than another when it could well be you who is blind and deaf to the truth.. right?
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