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On at least some levels it is one of the most perplexing statements in the Gospels.
However Jesus is seen as both True God and True Man. So as mentioned, in a way Jesus is speaking for us there. The feelings of abandonment we may feel at times. In the life of Jesus God experienced "the human", which includes frustration and annoyance and sadness.
I believe Matthew is also a Gospel that speaks more to the Jewish believers and this might have more resonance to them.
Sure that does sound like the worst faithless words Jesus said in the entire Gospel.... He was obvious delirious by the pain of the cross... In the Apostle Creed we confess ``he decendend into hell`` which was probably then when he took the sins of the world. ... Overwelmed by the devil in to believing The Lord God left him like a lying spirit would do to Christians who slightly fell from grace in their prayers.... If he had a clear mind he would have no pain on the cross or think the Lord left him.... No matter what happened there His prayers were answered and The Lord God rose him from the dead.
On at least some levels it is one of the most perplexing statements in the Gospels.
However Jesus is seen as both True God and True Man. So as mentioned, in a way Jesus is speaking for us there. The feelings of abandonment we may feel at times. In the life of Jesus God experienced "the human", which includes frustration and annoyance and sadness.
I believe Matthew is also a Gospel that speaks more to the Jewish believers and this might have more resonance to them.
you are soooo close....just keep 'thinking' and you will realize that all of this is nothing but a fairytale without logic.
Having doubts about something you've been forcefed since birth is nothing to be ashamed of! it's in fact reason to be proud of your thinking abilities and logic.
Think logically and rationally for once, put aside all that you think you know, and approach it with an open mind. you'll see that most if not all of the stories are made up and that the stories simply make no sense.
The Bible states that Jesus is the only begotton son of Jehovah God so he was praying and asking why had his father, (Jehovah] forsaken him.
Jehovah, can not look on sin and Jesus took on the sins of all man kind so he was for saken by his father now after dead he overcome sin and death so he was able to go up to heaven and he is setting on the right hand of Jehovah at this time.
The Bible states that Jesus is the only begotton son of Jehovah God so he was praying and asking why had his father, (Jehovah] forsaken him.
Jehovah, can not look on sin and Jesus took on the sins of all man kind so he was for saken by his father now after dead he overcome sin and death so he was able to go up to heaven and he is setting on the right hand of Jehovah at this time.
but he 'is' the father! (according to you)
how can he be forsaken by himself?
how can he trick himself?
how can he not know what was going to happen? he was God!!!
you are soooo close....just keep 'thinking' and you will realize that all of this is nothing but a fairytale without logic.
Well, the trinity (as taught by orthodoxy) is absolutely unscriptural.
What's weird though is that I see allegory there (in the bible - not in the Nicene creed) which is pure genius. Particularly in Genesis. Also comparing Jonah to Jesus to Adam - expulsion from paradise (forsaken) and then returning to the original source (resurrection).
Jesus was talking to His Father in Heaven while on the cross,the Son obviously was separated from His Father while His presence here on Earth. There are three entities only one God.
While I don't mean to be rude, the opinions expressed in previous threads further reflect the influence of "the church" upon all of your sensibilities. Not to mention your teachings. First and foremost Yahshuah (the one you like to call jesus) was a Jewish Rabbi. HE never ceased to be once HE began HIS mission to bring ALL that would come to be engrafted into Israel (the people not the country). I'm not sure how ya'll missed that but it's all over scripture including the Brit Chadash (the so called new testament).
The recitation Yahshuah was giving on "The Tree" (and by the way it wasn't a cross, the pagan symbol of death) but rather a almond tree, in which HE was placed facing East towards the Temple. Oh, sorry to digress. The recitation was that of Psalms 22 in which HE was teaching those at his feet (there was a gathering of people by the way) to HIS last breath, by giving a "confirmation" of HIS Messiahship with this recitation. It described HIM to a tee. His coming and how he would leave this world. HE was by NO means talking to HIMSELF
In the FIRST place there is ONLY ONE YHVH (Elohim) one you would call "god". There is NO other and Messiah Yahshuah HIMSELF stated this time and time again. HE had NO power nor words that were of HIS own but was relating all that the Father gave HIM. HE continually differed to the Father ALL power and glory. Just wanted to set that straight.
On at least some levels it is one of the most perplexing statements in the Gospels.
However Jesus is seen as both True God and True Man. So as mentioned, in a way Jesus is speaking for us there. The feelings of abandonment we may feel at times. In the life of Jesus God experienced "the human", which includes frustration and annoyance and sadness.
I believe Matthew is also a Gospel that speaks more to the Jewish believers and this might have more resonance to them.
Mark 15:34 'And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, ''ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI?'' which being translated, ''MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAST THOU FORSAKEN ME?''
These words of our Lord were prophecied in Psalms 22:1 and are also recorded in Matthew 27:46.
In literally screaming these words, Jesus Christ was making it clear that the eternal fellowship that He had always shared with the other two members of the trinity, God the Father and God the Holy Spirit, had to be broken at that moment.
The ninth hour was noon. This was when the supernatural darkness came over the area of the Cross and this is the moment that God the Father began to pour out on Christ the sins of the world. 1 Peter 2:24 'and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.'
These words that Christ screamed out, indicated that He was being judged for us. As a matter of justice, God the Father had to pour out His wrath on Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who in His HUMANITY was bearing the sins of the world. Just as Our sin separated us from God, Our sin separated Christ from the other two members of the Godhead, as they had to turn their backs on Him while He bore our sins.
The words that Christ screamed were from His humanity; not from His deity. Deity can not die. Deity cannot suffer spiritual death. God had to become a man so that He could take our place and pay the penalty for sin, by His substitutionary spiritual death.
It was being in contact with our sins and the broken fellowship with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit while He was in contact with Our sins that was the awful, and unspeakable agony of the Cross.
And there you have it. The exact reasons why you'll never get many Jewish people to believe their Messiah had already come. These teachings started by the Church of Rome and carried on since the 3rd century and the Nicean Council have been the block for many a Jewish person to accept their Messiah...why you ask.
Because the watchword of the faith is the "Shema". Yahshuah HIMSELF knew and practiced this. "Hear O Israel, YHVH is our Elohim, YHVH is ONE". "Blessed is HIS name whose glorious kingdom is forever and ever". NOT 2 NOT 3. There is ONLY ONE Elohim, NOT 3. For this reason alone Jewish people around the world know all too well that xtianity will NEVER be the true faith. Nor have they replaced Israel. To believe that is a complete distortion of Truth in the Tanach (the very books that the Messiah and the Talmadim taught from). Remember there was no such thing as the "new testament". They taught from the Tanach, the 1st 5 Books of Moses, Psalms and the Prophets. I know all too well I'm NOT preaching to the choir here, as you are only willing to read scripture based on greco roman interpretations, and NOT the original Hebrew/Aramaic, which has both different translation and intent in it's words. I look very forward to the return of Messiah and the regathering of HIS sheep....Israel as fortold in both Jeremiah and Ezekiel and yes....even Revelation. Let's not forget there are 12 gates in Yirusheliyim in which the true believers....Israel will be going through, one for each of the tribes...Including Yahudah (the Jewish people). Rev 22:14 Blessed are those doing His commandments so that the authority shall betheirs unto the tree of life, and to enter through the gates into the city.
Last edited by dcisive; 12-29-2009 at 01:12 PM..
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