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I understand what is being provided from scripture. Yet you say I don't understand, but yet you didn't provide anything that says otherwise to show my error. I provided scripture to show what God provided, so what He says stands.
Yes, what God says stands. The proper translation and interpretation of what God says stands also. However, i believe that your understanding of what that is will eventually change ... It did for me. After 30 years of thinking i had all the answers, having believed during that time much the way you do now.
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 02-11-2010 at 01:26 AM..
The proofs you gave are all based on the translations saying "forever" or "everlasting". But Christ did not speak English. He did not say "forever" or "everlasting". The translators did (some of them).
All scriptures are Christ's words. Those words contain examples of aionion and olam consequences that do not last forever. Now tell me why I should believe that aionion and olam consequences last forever based on the translators word, when Christ's own words contain examples where they do not last forever?
The fact is those words have been proven can mean eternal. So, really not here to argue what the scripture says. I find it interesting that those who don't try to pen point things on translators when it comes down to certain scripture, but yet the scripture they like they accept.
I have studied the words and they can very well mean eternal or everlasting.
When studying the word aionios and its family words aionion, aioniou we can look at scripture and research will show the meaning.
Matthew 25:46 YLT
And these shall go away to punishment age-during (AIÔNION), but the righteous to life age-during( AIÔNION).'
If someone wants to twist and say the word is only for a time, eon, or age, then you have to change the second half of the sentence. Is is not correct that the age of life is just as long for the age for punishment?
And these shall go away to punishment ( an age, an eon), but the righteous to life ( an age, an eon)
Now we know that the righteous will have life eternally, so why would the first part of the sentence be changed and not the second? Thus, Jesus tells us that the eternal hope of the righteous is in Him aionion life, a life that will never end.
Whenever AIÔNIOS is combined with ZÔÊ("life")in the Greek New Testament, it always means "eternal." Thus, if the second occurrence of AIÔNIOS in this verse means "eternal," it seems reasonable to accept the same meaning in the first usage, particularly given the parallel construction.
Revelation 22:5
There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever (aiōnas) and ever (aiōnōn).
So, if the word is mistranslated and not meaning forever or ever as you say, then you are saying this will only last for an age that will end.
Titus 1:2
upon hope of life age-during (aiōniōn), which God, who doth not lie, did promise before times of ages,
2 Timothy 2:10
because of this all things do I endure, because of the choice ones, that they also salvation may obtain that [is] in Christ Jesus, with glory age-during (aiōniou).
Jn. 3:15
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but[a] have eternal life (aiōnion).
If the word is mistranslated as you say, life is not eternal whoever believes in Jesus, this is only for an age to end.
2 Corinthians 4:18
we not looking to the things seen, but to the things not seen; for the things seen [are] temporary, but the things not seen [are] age-during (aiōnia).
1 Timothy 6:16
who only is having immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable, whom no one of men did see, nor is able to see, to whom [is] honour and might age-during (aiōnion)! Amen.
hebrews 9:15
And because of this, of a new covenant he is mediator, that, death having come, for redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, those called may receive the promise of the age-during (aiōniou) inheritance,
Will they only get their inheritance for an age to end?
So, by you saying that the word is mistranslated wrong, you are mistaken. So, you see the words can very well mean eternal, everlasting, a time that will not end.
Yes, what God says stands. The proper translation and interpretation of what God says stands also. However, i believe that your understanding of what that is will eventually change ... It did for me. After 30 years of thinking i had all the answers, having believed during that time much the way you do now.
NO, God says all will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. Your translation may say differently, but from every translation that I have checked they say the same thing. So, who is anyone to overrule what God already said? The point of me posting post number 56 , is because it seems that people over look every other characteristic of God and only want to preach about the love of God and there is nothing wrong with that. But God provided scripture to show us what would happen if we rejected Him and turned away from Him. Jesus even preached what would happen to those who rejected the one who gave life.
So, this seems to me people trying to teach around certain scripture. God is loving, but God said He would destroy the wicked. We are to teach the Gospel of Christ and He preached what would happen to the wicked, so people are trying to preach one thing and leave out the rest of what God provided.
The fact is those words have been proven can mean eternal.
Miss Shawn,
I never said aionion means temporary or age with an end. The verses where you substitute those kind of phrases when applied to God has no bearing on what I'm saying.
aionion is applied to God. aionion is applied to temporary things
So aionion all by it's lonesome does not prove a thing to be temporary or everlasting.
Quote:
And these shall go away to punishment age-during (AIÔNION), but the righteous to life age-during( AIÔNION).'
If someone wants to twist and say the word is only for a time, eon, or age, then you have to change the second half of the sentence. Is is not correct that the age of life is just as long for the age for punishment?
In the passage below, is the aion of the hills the same duration as the aion of God's ways? No. The hills have their aion which is long but not everlasting, and God has His aion which is everlasting.
Hab 3:6 He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting.
The aion corresponding to life in Christ is forever. We are raised immortal, incorruptible, as He is, and "so shall we always be with the Lord".
The aion corresponding to punishment is until a person turns to Christ with all His heart and follows Him. God's mercy is aionion. If it's "too late" then God's aionion mercy is actually temporary.
The sciprtures show that not all aions are equal when it applies aionion to God and things that are tempoary.
What about my first question? Isn't unbelief a sin that Christ died for?
14Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15and free those (you and i) who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. 16For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham's descendants. 17For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for[f]the sins of the people. 18Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.
You were freed from your unbelief , you did not free yourself.
If we were in fear of death , which the above passage of scripture tells us we were , we were in unbelief .
Now read verse 15 and then ask yourself who freed you from unbelief .
Exactly , so why are you holding the unbeliever accountable , when God showed you such great tender mercies and kindness in freeing you from your own unbelief ?.
14Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15and free those (you and i) who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. 16For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham's descendants. 17For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for[f]the sins of the people. 18Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.
You were freed from your unbelief , you did not free yourself.
If we were in fear of death , which the above passage of scripture tells us we were , we were in unbelief .
Now read verse 15 and then ask yourself who freed you from unbelief .
Exactly , so why are you holding the unbeliever accountable , when God showed you such great tender mercies and kindness in freeing you from your own unbelief ?.
God does. The creations screams there is a creator, we see a design in the universe so there must be a designer. Man can spend many lifetimes studying the human body let alone an infinite amount of time studying the universe. We all have a conscience telling us what is right or wrong. We all have a knowledge of God. We all know God exist but we suppress Him in unrighteousness. There is no excuse for unbelief. If one can see a pattern, a design, evidence pointing towards God and is longing for the truth and puts away his or her pride then God will reveal Himself to the unbeliever.
I never said aionion means temporary or age with an end. The verses where you substitute those kind of phrases when applied to God has no bearing on what I'm saying.
aionion is applied to God. aionion is applied to temporary things
So aionion all by it's lonesome does not prove a thing to be temporary or everlasting.
In the passage below, is the aion of the hills the same duration as the aion of God's ways? No. The hills have their aion which is long but not everlasting, and God has His aion which is everlasting.
Hab 3:6 He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting.
The aion corresponding to life in Christ is forever. We are raised immortal, incorruptible, as He is, and "so shall we always be with the Lord".
The aion corresponding to punishment is until a person turns to Christ with all His heart and follows Him. God's mercy is aionion. If it's "too late" then God's aionion mercy is actually temporary.
The sciprtures show that not all aions are equal when it applies aionion to God and things that are tempoary.
Quote:
The sciprtures show that not all aions are equal when it applies aionion to God and things that are tempoary.[/
I know it doesn't mean or have anything to do with time being temporary, and the words can be translated as everlasting, or ever. LOL, you say not all aions are equal, but yet I showed you that the words can and very well mean what I showed, so yes the words can mean what I have shown, if you like it or not. I never said the word by itself, I showed you what the word meant in how it was being used, you didn't show anything, but your opinion.
UR say the word can't mean everlasting, forever, at all, but when you show them the error in showing them how the words can and very well be translated, they try that same old tired old card. When applied to God, that doesn' count, LOL .
According to God's Word, the words can very well mean what I have shown. The aion corresponding to punishment is until a person turns to Christ with all His heart and follows Him. God's mercy is aionion. Show me in scripture where where it says a persons punishment is until they turn to Christ, I am taking you are talking about judgement? I would like to see the scripture where the wicked are turning from their ways in punishment, because the scripture doesn't support that the fire that they are in is for purification?
God does. The creations screams there is a creator, we see a design in the universe so there must be a designer. Man can spend many lifetimes studying the human body let alone an infinite amount of time studying the universe. We all have a conscience telling us what is right or wrong. We all have a knowledge of God. We all know God exist but we suppress Him in unrighteousness. There is no excuse for unbelief. If one can see a pattern, a design, evidence pointing towards God and is longing for the truth and puts away his or her pride then God will reveal Himself to the unbeliever.
Another poster who says he believes in Faith alone but his words tell us otherwise.
Fundy how often do we have to go around on this subject .
It's God that opens the eyes of the blind , do you agree ?
If it's God that opens our eyes , what does He opens our eyes to ?
Himself or the bible ?
the people living in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of the shadow of death a light has dawned."
Fundy do you not understand that our light is darkness until light dawns upon us and opens the eyes of our heart ?
Another poster who says he believes in Faith alone but his words tell us otherwise.
Fundy how often do we have to go around on this subject .
It's God that opens the eyes of the blind , do you agree ?
If it's God that opens our eyes , what does He opens our eyes to ?
Himself or the bible ?
the people living in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of the shadow of death a light has dawned."
Fundy do you not understand that our light is darkness until light dawns upon us and opens the eyes of our heart ?
It is true that we are dead in our sins and only God can bring us to life BUT the bible is VERY CLEAR that we have a choice also. Scripture is full of verses where the bible says our choices play a part in our salvation.
It is true that we are dead in our sins and only God can bring us to life BUT the bible is VERY CLEAR that we have a choice also. Scripture is full of verses where the bible says our choices play a part in our salvation.
So you believe you can open your own eyes , or are you of the same persuasion of the pharisee and scribe who thought they not blind ?.
Nobody has ever heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind. If this man were not from God, he could do nothing.” John 9 verses 22 and 23.
If only christians would recognize this if only God can open our natural eyes , how much more do we need him to open our eyes to see and put our trust in Him. At least the man born blind recognized this.
18“The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me
to preach good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to release the oppressed, 19to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.
Luke 4 verses 18 and 19
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