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To be fair . . . God does seem to find ways to present things to each of us in the specific way that is most able to produce belief in us. My personal experience attests to its effectiveness with me. I am not sure HOW to characterize that, though. I did NOT feel forced . . . but it didn't exactly seem to be a CHOICE either . . . it just became an unmistakable reality to me.
There was another Saul in the Bible who God forced to change who was seeking to murder David:
1 Samuel 10:9-11 KJV And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day. (10) And when they came thither to the hill, behold, a company of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them. (11) And it came to pass, when all that knew him beforetime saw that, behold, he prophesied among the prophets, then the people said one to another, What is this that is come unto the son of Kish? Is Saul also among the prophets?
No pleading to change.
No altar call.
No organ music.
No "Just As I Am, without one Plea."
And:
1 Samuel 19:22-24 KJV Then went he also to Ramah, and came to a great well that is in Sechu: and he asked and said, Where are Samuel and David? And one said, Behold, they be at Naioth in Ramah. (23) And he went thither to Naioth in Ramah: and the Spirit of God was upon him also, and he went on, and prophesied, until he came to Naioth in Ramah. (24) And he stripped off his clothes also, and prophesied before Samuel in like manner, and lay down naked all that day and all that night. Wherefore they say, Is Saul also among the prophets?
Since God can change an evil heart with the snap of the finger, why can't He do this with all mankind? Hint: He will!
Notwithstanding that Paul's case was a special one which entailed superabundant grace (that which is beyond and more than usual). Special grace for a special purpose.
Do you know of anyone else who was ever converted in this manner?
I'm shocked that you think God gave "special grace" to Paul! If so, Paul didn't realize it when he said in Romans 2:11 that God does not show favoritism.
Its quite easy, and is simple logic really. To believe otherwise is illogical. But let me explain. As the OP says:
1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world
The Father sent (commissioned) Jesus to be the savior of the world. In effect He was sent to save the world. If He doesn't save the world, He is not the savior of the world. Does scripture confirm this? YES:
John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
So if Jesus doesn't save the world, then He has failed what He was sent to do. That is what some of you are implying - that Jesus fails. Scripture tells He came to save the world, but you don't seem to believe He will do it.
On to verse 15:
1 John 4:15 If anyone acknowledgesthat Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God.
Does this somehow limit Jesus ability to save the world? NO. It simply means that one must acknowledge Jesus to live (in Him and God in he) - i.e. you could say to be saved (live) one must acknowledge Jesus.
See you cannot take verse 15 in isolation and say therefore not everyone will be saved. Because these scriptures say that everyone will bow, confess, swear allegiance to, even praise Jesus. Certainly that is an acknowledgment of Jesus, no?
Isaiah 45:23 [NASB] "I have sworn by Myself,
The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
And will not turn back,
That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
Rom 14:11It is written:
" 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confessto God.'
Psalm 22:27 All the ends of the earth
will remember and turn to the LORD,
and all the families of the nations will bow down before him,
Psalm 22:29 All the rich of the earth will feast and worship;
all who go down to the dust will kneel before him—
those who cannot keep themselves alive.
Rev 5:13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing:
"To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!"
Make sense? All will acknowledge Jesus, and they are all happy about it!
But then there are some holes still in your overall argument. First off, you have to corroborate those passages used with those from Enow's on the first page (I am not going retype all of those). Every single passage there highlights the notion that salvation comes alone through faith in Christ. What about those who died without accepting Christ, but heard His Gospel? You might argue that all people will turn and acknowledge Christ in the next life, but then Hebrews 9 states that all men are appointed to die once and then face judgment. If all people are going to heaven, what is God judging? These people may go through purification as you call it, but there really is nothing left for God to judge of them. Next, how do you justify the notion of salvation without faith. Faith is the criteria set by Jesus Himself in regards to salvation. These people all die and see God with their own eyes, then they turn to Him after seeing but not believing. How come faith is such a highlighted point of Scripture if most people are going to end up bypassing it to see God in the flesh first? And then there is the issue with Revelations. The one text that does the best at explaining what will happen in the end times to all people.
Chapter 20: 12-15: "And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
The story continues on, but ultimately ends with those who were not in the Lamb's book of life being cast down into the lake and remaining there. No mention whatsoever of them coming out, or even being released. Either Revelations shouldn't be in the Scripture as it seems to do the most harm to the idea of universal reconciliation, or universalism simply can't be true as this book makes a clear distinction between the saved and the unsaved. You might argue that the chapter makes no mention of time duration regarding these people being down in the lake, but then what about Revelations 20:10
"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever".
The people get thrown down into the same lake as the devil, who is there for eternity. So why the people not found in the Lamb's book of life be there also for eternity? Second, if Christ saved all, why is the devil going to the lake for eternity? Or does Christ sacrifice limit itself to only humans? How do you corroborate your passages with Enow's and mine?
He was more than there , He came to where no one else would go to seek and save the lost .
Yet few are there for Him ? Oh pleaaaaze , there is nothing in you or I that could make such a claim , we are were we are because of Him.
How full of pride we are to think that we found the narrow gate .
Jesus lead me all the way !!!!!!!!!
Forgive me pcamps, I have no idea what your even talking about. And when I say few are there for Him. I say that, because that is what Jesus Christ has already told us. And that is how I can make such a claim. And that statement has nothing to do with any kind of pride, it has everything to do with God's written WORD.
Forgive me pcamps, I have no idea what your even talking about. And when I say few are there for Him. I say that, because that is what Jesus Christ has already told us. And that is how I can make such a claim. And that statement has nothing to do with any kind of pride, it has everything to do with God's written WORD.
You would do well to emphasize listening to God's LIVING Word, Jesus and the Holy Spirit and what God has "written in our hearts" rather than what has been "written in ink." 2 Corinthians 3: 2-6 (King James Version)
2Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
Let me get this straight: according to you "God so loved the world, or, just those who came to Jesus, so that He gave His only begotten Son" (John 3:16 according to you)?
That is pretty odd.
God created the world and all that is in it.
But according to you, God created only those who come to Jesus which is the world. What rabbit hole did you fall into?
You know, if your going to quote Scripture, It's always best to quote the (FULL SCRIPTURE). And not just the (PARTS) you want to believe.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, (THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH,) but have everlasting life.
So you see, it is not just according to me, but according to the Bible, (WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM), are the one's who will not perish. It has nothing to do with rabbit holes. It has everything to do with reading the Scriptures honestly.
Yea, just like Saul of Tarsus on the road to Damascus about to arrest and murder more Christians. Jesus gave him a chance. Jesus gave ole Saul an altar call and sang "Just As I Am" as Saul made his way up to the front on that dusty road. He left the choice all up to Saul. Yea, uhhuh, right!
Saul was (SEEKING) to do God will, yet he was in error. And God correct him. When Saul discovered that Jesus was God, he followed Him. Today even in the Middle East, Muslems are telling us stories of how Jesus Christ is appearing to them in their dreams, and telling them to follow Him. And this is occuring, because many of them like Saul, are really seeking to follow the real God.
You would do well to emphasize listening to God's LIVING Word, Jesus and the Holy Spirit and what God has "written in our hearts" rather than what has been "written in ink." 2 Corinthians 3: 2-6 (King James Version)
2Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
Well, before you dismiss the ink version. You would do well to heed a warning given to us by Jesus Himself.
John 12:48 He who rejects Me and does not (RECEIVE MY SAYINGS) has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.
Of course Jesus sayings, will be found in the written ink version.
Forgive me pcamps, I have no idea what your even talking about. And when I say few are there for Him. I say that, because that is what Jesus Christ has already told us. And that is how I can make such a claim. And that statement has nothing to do with any kind of pride, it has everything to do with God's written WORD.
Where in the scripture does it say we are there for him ?
You have that the wrong way round , he's there for us has the scripture says "He's abundantly available in times of trouble"
If you believe you found the narrow gate through your own seeking and finding you are deceiving yourself .
You are who you are and where you are because of Him .
He sought you , found you, opened your eyes, loved you and what he's done for you he will do for all because he's no respecter of persons .
Where in the scripture does it say we are there for him ?
You have that the wrong way round , he's there for us has the scripture says "He's abundantly available in times of trouble"
If you believe you found the narrow gate through your own seeking and finding you are deceiving yourself .
You are who you are and where you are because of Him .
He sought you , found you, opened your eyes, loved you and what he's done for you he will do for all because he's no respecter of persons .
Jeremiah 29:13
You will seek me and find me (WHEN YOU SEEK ME) with all your heart.
Now you can go tell God He was wrong.LOL
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