Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Plentiful security all around to protect a $350 million dollar investment, keeping all the riffraff away to ensure this place doesn't turn into a tri-county mall debacle.
1) Mrs Catfish and I live in Middletown, and I work in Cincinnati...I am bowled over by the sheer amount of retail, entertainment, and dining options that have become available since I moved to SW Ohio over 10 yrs ago...to wit:
Kenwood Towne Centre
Liberty Center
Newport On The Levee
Dayton Mall
The Tri-County Area (yep, I said it)
Rookwood Commons/Pavilion
Cincinnati Premium Outlets
The Greene
Austin Landing
Bridgewater Falls
If I've omitted anything, it's for the sake of brevity, because that list can go on and on...we are very happy here...which leads me to---
2) Riffraff? Really? Far as I know, Riff Raff was Underdog's cartoon nemesis...and by the way, my wife and I share the same shade(s) of melanin as some of those you so cheekily deem as 'riffraff'
Now, I'm sorry, but your irrational fear of busloads (or carloads) of 'RayRay, Pookie, Junebug, Shaniqua, Shenanae and 'em' rolling up I-75 to cause turmoil, hasn't yet and never will stop my college-educated (2 master's degrees!), hard-working, tax-paying, law-abiding wife and I from patronizing Liberty Center and anywhere else we please, anytime we please
I understand some of your concerns, because my wife and I share them to a certain extent...but just painting groups of people with the 'riffraff' brush makes about as much sense as me dressing like a Black Panther and shouting 'Hate Whitey!!!' from the rooftops...can't we do better than this?
1) Mrs Catfish and I live in Middletown, and I work in Cincinnati...I am bowled over by the sheer amount of retail, entertainment, and dining options that have become available since I moved to SW Ohio over 10 yrs ago...to wit:
Kenwood Towne Centre
Liberty Center
Newport On The Levee
Dayton Mall
The Tri-County Area (yep, I said it)
Rookwood Commons/Pavilion
Cincinnati Premium Outlets
The Greene
Austin Landing
Bridgewater Falls
If I've omitted anything, it's for the sake of brevity, because that list can go on and on...we are very happy here...which leads me to---
2) Riffraff? Really? Far as I know, Riff Raff was Underdog's cartoon nemesis...and by the way, my wife and I share the same shade(s) of melanin as some of those you so cheekily deem as 'riffraff'
Now, I'm sorry, but your irrational fear of busloads (or carloads) of 'RayRay, Pookie, Junebug, Shaniqua, Shenanae and 'em' rolling up I-75 to cause turmoil, hasn't yet and never will stop my college-educated (2 master's degrees!), hard-working, tax-paying, law-abiding wife and I from patronizing Liberty Center and anywhere else we please, anytime we please
I understand some of your concerns, because my wife and I share them to a certain extent...but just painting groups of people with the 'riffraff' brush makes about as much sense as me dressing like a Black Panther and shouting 'Hate Whitey!!!' from the rooftops...can't we do better than this?
What does melanin have to do with riffraff? I think you've got this all wrong:
noun
1. people, or a group of people, regarded as disreputable or worthless: a pack of riffraff.
2. the lowest classes; rabble: the riffraff of the city.
3. trash; rubbish.
In other words, I don't want to see these types (color of skin does not matter) causing problems around a mall that I live 5 minutes away from. This isn't a "hang out". People are trying to dine and shop and they don't need to be putting up with any nonsense. Security will do their job and I will support the actions of security and police to keep the place nice. We aren't going to allow this place to turn into another debacle.
What does melanin have to do with riffraff? I think you've got this all wrong:
noun
1. people, or a group of people, regarded as disreputable or worthless: a pack of riffraff.
2. the lowest classes; rabble: the riffraff of the city.
3. trash; rubbish.
In other words, I don't want to see these types (color of skin does not matter) causing problems around a mall that I live 5 minutes away from. This isn't a "hang out". People are trying to dine and shop and they don't need to be putting up with any nonsense. Security will do their job and I will support the actions of security and police to keep the place nice. We aren't going to allow this place to turn into another debacle.
And I'm saying this as diplomatically as possible...you nor I get to tell whomever that they can't patronize that establishment!
You are using the worst kind of generalism when you do that...I don't want this thread to turn into a p****ng contest between you and I, but let's let security/police do their jobs without standing with our lips pressed and arms folded and foot tapping impatiently (a la 'The Church Lady')
I have a hard time believing that a mall 15 minutes away from Tri-County and 15 minutes away from two urban communities with higher crime rates will be safer by default. Hopefully I'm wrong.
I have a hard time believing that a mall 15 minutes away from Tri-County and 15 minutes away from two urban communities with higher crime rates will be safer by default. Hopefully I'm wrong.
I don't go to TriCounty much, because, I don't go to MALLS much (the Greene is not a "mall", its an outside pedestrian lifestyle center -- which yes, I recognize the ridiculous prentensiousness of that)..
I've been to TriCounty, and Dayton Mall (neither of which are particularly awesome) as well as Kenwood.
I've never felt unsafe.
And I'm short, and white, and a female. So apparently I've hit the victim trifecta.
There are a bunch of rowdy teenagers there sometimes. So what? There are a bunch of rowdy teenagers at kenwood regulalry, they just carry gucci handbags. They're no less obnoxious for it.
I am sure there will be teenagers at the new Liberty Town Center. I am sure that sometimes they will cluster in big obnoxious groups to cheer on one of their friends as they do something incredibly stupid. I am also sure, that I will simply skirt the group of teenagers and continue on my way without feeling like I've been endangered.
Are there really malls here where I need to worry about being raped in the hallway? Or killed outside sbarro? Because if that were true, I would think (as sensationalistic as the news is) I would have heard about that.
I don't go to TriCounty much, because, I don't go to MALLS much (the Greene is not a "mall", its an outside pedestrian lifestyle center -- which yes, I recognize the ridiculous prentensiousness of that)..
I've been to TriCounty, and Dayton Mall (neither of which are particularly awesome) as well as Kenwood.
I've never felt unsafe.
And I'm short, and white, and a female. So apparently I've hit the victim trifecta.
There are a bunch of rowdy teenagers there sometimes. So what? There are a bunch of rowdy teenagers at kenwood regulalry, they just carry gucci handbags. They're no less obnoxious for it.
I am sure there will be teenagers at the new Liberty Town Center. I am sure that sometimes they will cluster in big obnoxious groups to cheer on one of their friends as they do something incredibly stupid. I am also sure, that I will simply skirt the group of teenagers and continue on my way without feeling like I've been endangered.
Are there really malls here where I need to worry about being raped in the hallway? Or killed outside sbarro? Because if that were true, I would think (as sensationalistic as the news is) I would have heard about that.
This was very well said and thought-out, and also illustrates the dangers of folks subscribing to 'Chicken-Littleism'
I think this mall will do fine, but there are two HUGE red flags.
1. The lack of solid new to market anchors here is downright bizarre. This place should have been able to pick up a mid-high range department store like Belk, captured the Saks that was planning to relocate out of downtown Cincy with Phillips Edison dropped the ball at Kenwood, or even picked off the Tri-County Macy's. Instead they got Divks Sporting Goods for anchor #2, a chain that typically shows up in the average non-sequitur shopping center near an important shopping center. At bare minimum I thought this would have been an ideal spot for the aging Tylersville Rd Kohls to move to but apparently not.
2. The Monroe Outlets, for all of the success they have had, within the past years have had a major shoplifting problem. I hope the won't be true at the Liberty Center, I really do, but keep in mind this place is built right on I-75 and is just as easy to access (if not easier) than Monroe outlets.
That being said, Steiner absolutely builds quality developments and the location is decent and close to Mason despite West Chester's problems. Probably the lack of infrastructure to make West Chester look halfway decent and prosperous, along with the questionable schools, were major reasons why factor #1 happened. If this development would have been in Mason City Limits at Fields Ertel in place of Deerfield Towne Center I bet it could have landed Saks or Belk, maybe even Bloomingdales.
Regardless, as long as it has a similar effect as The Greene has had in Dayton I think it will be fine and not too cannibalistic of retail, but local restaurants & bars will have to watch out. IMO The Greene is a direct competitor of the Oregon District in Dayton more than anywhere else, although getting Dayronians to The Greene if anything has helped the OD and inspire people to go explore down there. But Liberty Center is a lot more retail focused so who knows what will actually happen. I'm guessing it will stay that way and be more like Easton rather than go with the stronger restaurant focus and be like The Greene given Tri County's weakness right now, but idk....
And I'm saying this as diplomatically as possible...you nor I get to tell whomever that they can't patronize that establishment!
You are using the worst kind of generalism when you do that...I don't want this thread to turn into a p****ng contest between you and I, but let's let security/police do their jobs without standing with our lips pressed and arms folded and foot tapping impatiently (a la 'The Church Lady')
And furthermore, exactly who is 'we'?
Look, we both understand that the type of people that patronize an establishment ultimately dictate it's success. If people feel unsafe or if there are reports of theft and vandalism, we know that the good patrons are not going to continue to want to shop there! We know that a vast majority of people do not want to deal with riffraff or feel uncomfortable while they are trying to purchase items!
Anyone can patronize an establishment, but it's the actions of said patrons which are the concern here. "we" refers to those persons who actually care about what happens to the place over time. I don't understand what your argument is here. We are both respectable, tax paying members of society with advanced degrees. We both enjoy the nice retail locations that Cincy has to offer. Why wouldn't we want to keep these places and things we enjoy looking nice? Why would we want them to fall to the same fate as other malls because people who are unlike us without any values don't care what happens to the place?!
If an officer sees exhibit A walking round this new location with his pants falling off his ankles, throwing up the middle finger to the sky, should he just simply go against his gut feeling and pay no mind? No, he's going to watch this guy like a hawk because generalizations and stereotypes dictate that he do so. Why should the assessment by you, or I or any citizen be any different than that of an officer? The odds are that said the person acting and looking like a trouble maker IS a trouble maker, and that they will cause problems.
What do you think the impact would be on the success of that retail location if we had a bunch of these types seen in the photo below running around causing problems? Is this now acceptable behavior? Are we not allowed to deem what is acceptable or what is not acceptable action or behavior because someone might be offended? When did we become the united states of wussification? Personally I find it rather off putting that someone would think that I or anyone else in similar position doesn't have enough street smarts and intelligence to be able to distinguish riffraff from non riffraff, and that tone of skin of the individual would have ANY impact whatsoever in said assessment.
I don't go to TriCounty much, because, I don't go to MALLS much (the Greene is not a "mall", its an outside pedestrian lifestyle center -- which yes, I recognize the ridiculous prentensiousness of that)..
I've been to TriCounty, and Dayton Mall (neither of which are particularly awesome) as well as Kenwood.
I've never felt unsafe.
And I'm short, and white, and a female. So apparently I've hit the victim trifecta.
There are a bunch of rowdy teenagers there sometimes. So what? There are a bunch of rowdy teenagers at kenwood regulalry, they just carry gucci handbags. They're no less obnoxious for it.
I am sure there will be teenagers at the new Liberty Town Center. I am sure that sometimes they will cluster in big obnoxious groups to cheer on one of their friends as they do something incredibly stupid. I am also sure, that I will simply skirt the group of teenagers and continue on my way without feeling like I've been endangered.
Are there really malls here where I need to worry about being raped in the hallway? Or killed outside sbarro? Because if that were true, I would think (as sensationalistic as the news is) I would have heard about that.
Buy why should this even be allowed to be a possibility to begin with? Call it forward thinking, call it whatever you may, but wouldn't it just be a whole lot BETTER if you didn't have to deal with it in the fisrt place and not have to side step it? That it would be broken up before it even really evolved into a situation that is even noticeable in the first place? Wouldn't it be a whole lot better if you didn't have to hear stories about vandalism, theft, and assault at your local mall to being with? Liberty City is doing it right with all the police and security on hand. If it wasn't perceived to be a potential issue, then why so much security?
People like to poke fun at the whole "safe place" idea and criticize those who are overly cautious. Yes, we can all tuck in our guns with our concealed carry permits and walk around like safety isn't a concern because if anyone tries anything we will just exert self defense with our firearm, but the reality is that it's just not that simple. Someone tries to mug you and you shoot them, be prepared for high level of stress, lost time at work, $$$, court hearings..the list goes on. Wouldn't it just make more sense to keep security levels high and create a safe environment so that people feel safer and send a message that criminal activity will not be tolerated and will be punished to the max? That is the message that Liberty Center is sending.
I think this mall will do fine, but there are two HUGE red flags.
1. The lack of solid new to market anchors here is downright bizarre. This place should have been able to pick up a mid-high range department store like Belk, captured the Saks that was planning to relocate out of downtown Cincy with Phillips Edison dropped the ball at Kenwood, or even picked off the Tri-County Macy's. Instead they got Divks Sporting Goods for anchor #2, a chain that typically shows up in the average non-sequitur shopping center near an important shopping center. At bare minimum I thought this would have been an ideal spot for the aging Tylersville Rd Kohls to move to but apparently not.
2. The Monroe Outlets, for all of the success they have had, within the past years have had a major shoplifting problem. I hope the won't be true at the Liberty Center, I really do, but keep in mind this place is built right on I-75 and is just as easy to access (if not easier) than Monroe outlets.
That being said, Steiner absolutely builds quality developments and the location is decent and close to Mason despite West Chester's problems. Probably the lack of infrastructure to make West Chester look halfway decent and prosperous, along with the questionable schools, were major reasons why factor #1 happened. If this development would have been in Mason City Limits at Fields Ertel in place of Deerfield Towne Center I bet it could have landed Saks or Belk, maybe even Bloomingdales.
Regardless, as long as it has a similar effect as The Greene has had in Dayton I think it will be fine and not too cannibalistic of retail, but local restaurants & bars will have to watch out. IMO The Greene is a direct competitor of the Oregon District in Dayton more than anywhere else, although getting Dayronians to The Greene if anything has helped the OD and inspire people to go explore down there. But Liberty Center is a lot more retail focused so who knows what will actually happen. I'm guessing it will stay that way and be more like Easton rather than go with the stronger restaurant focus and be like The Greene given Tri County's weakness right now, but idk....
Will be one to watch
I agree that the Dicks is a little bizarre. But, I don't know how much the "anchor" stores really are the draw at his other properties (I've never been to Easton). At the Greene, while I go to VonMauers, I don't think many other people necessarily do... or at least not the ones that are there at the movie theatres, or buying cheap jewelry at Charming Charlies, etc..
So, it may be a similar situation to that .. where people come more for the environment itself than any particular big chain. I do agree, Saks or something similar would have been nice.
I don't think there will be too much cannibalization of other restaurants, simply because there's not much right there. Tylersville is always packed, I don't think that'll change. Bridgewater is a bit away. Union center is also a bit away.
Union Center (streets of WC in particular) might take a bit of a hit -- simply because all it has is movies/dining, and Liberty Twp will provide a nice alternative.
As far as why it was built in Liberty Twp, not WC - apparently WC didn't want it. It had nothing to do with questionable infrastructure (?!?) or supposedly in-danger schools. WC doesn't want "retail". WC wants other businesses.
There was actually a very recent article about that. As far as its position along 75 - steiner said that too was deliberate, as he seems to envision the Dayton/Cinci markets merging along that corridor (as most of us up here in the Northern burbs also see happening). Deerfield is already quite built out, and along I-71, where competition with Kenwood would be that much more intense.
I'm really hoping this will be a success. I'm certainly looking forward to significantly more restaurant options, as well as some light shopping and a new up-to-date theatre.
That said, I may wait until January to go, as I don't really want to deal with "Its NEW!" crowds, and soon those will morph into "CHRISTMAS!" crowds... *shudder*
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Okay Max...I See Your Point---BUT
