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No amount of cheer-leading or name calling will save the
connector. It runs (or, more likely does not run) out in the open. And empty cars and long waits show it is a dead loser.
As time passes all of the claims fade in the sunlight of the truth.
I saw it today with two grim passengers in the whole ride. That is the future when the novelty of holiday visitors wears off.
I have absolutely zero problem with mass transit myself. People need to be able to get around and I don't care if it makes money or not. It's a necessity for a lot of people. But the problem is that mass transit is the method of last resort for most people. If they can afford to drive and if they don't save time, nobody wants to use mass transit.
This is patently false. I've known very wealthy individuals in Cleveland who used the Red Line rail rapid to commute downtown from Shaker Hts. and even used buses from west side suburbs to downtown.
The Red Line was faster than driving, so your caveat "if they don't save time," obviously is applicable. These individuals always used their commuting time to read, or to prepare for work. They avoided having to purchase another vehicle for their family (in retrospect, as both had teenagers, I've often wondered if they saw a benefit to denying their kids easier access to a vehicle).
Personally, for several years, I used mass transit for these same reasons, and to avoid high parking charges near my place of work. I especially enjoyed being able to catch up on journals, etc., while in a bus sitting in congestion rather than sitting listening to the radio in my personal vehicle.
There wouldn't be bus park 'n rides in upscale suburbs, such as Brecksville in Cleveland, if nobody wanted to use mass transit.
Cleveland suburban transit systems, such as Laketran in more wealthy Lake County, offer multiple options for mass transit service to downtown and even University Circle, including park 'n ride lots and even point-to-point service to University Circle hospitals.
Some more wealthy individuals, especially the elderly, don't enjoy driving on freeways and especially in urban areas, and some can't safely drive in these areas.
Today, persons riding mass transit have access to digital entertainment (games) and communications.
Thinking about autonomous vehicles, especially top level autonomous vehicles with no steering wheels or pedals, I wonder if wealthy individuals might be less willing to use fixed line mass transit.
I have friends today who visit Cleveland from Columbus and on day trips park in the West 150th free park 'n ride to go to games at First Energy Stadium (which has an adjacent Waterfront Line station), or to go to University Circle or performances at PlayhouseSquare. It gives them more flexibility to go to places throughout Cleveland without incurring multiple parking charges, such as in the Market District before or after a game. The RTA day pass price is only $5.50.
It's also possible to stay in several less expensive hotels near the West 150th station within an easy walk. All airport hotels offer free shuttles to the airport Red Line station.
I use downtown Cleveland's free bus trolleys frequently when I'm downtown even these days.
Generalizations such as "nobody" almost always are wrong.
And then consider densely populated cities such as NYC and Chicago. I know persons living in these areas who consider owning a personal vehicle a massive waste of money.
When someone says "nobody" of course the flames go up. But, in this case, "nobody" here in Cincinnati is a term of art, and a correct one. Very fine service from the I-71 corridor (far nicer, faster, and more convenient than a subway or train anywhere but Japan) goes unused because here, nobody want to use it. And, when we say nobody, of the tens of thousands of I71 commuters into downtown, a couple hundred use the excellent metro.
Many people have to ride the train or the bus or the subway. Cost, or time forces them to do so. But few actually want to. The private car is what people want. But, if they have to pay for it, insure it, fuel it, park it and repair it, they take what they see as the lesser of two unattractive (to them) choices.
I would pay a lot of money not to be forced into an enclosed space with the stinking disorderlies who are typical on the subways and trains of major US Cities.
When someone says "nobody" of course the flames go up. But, in this case, "nobody" here in Cincinnati is a term of art, and a correct one. Very fine service from the I-71 corridor (far nicer, faster, and more convenient than a subway or train anywhere but Japan) goes unused because here, nobody want to use it. And, when we say nobody, of the tens of thousands of I71 commuters into downtown, a couple hundred use the excellent metro.
Do you have any factual support for this claim? If even a few hundred use this line, clearly "nobody" once again is inappropriate. I don't know anything about this metro line, but if it has multiple park 'n rides, a couple hundred users would seem understated, or this metro line may be even more expensive to operate than the Cincinnati Connector on a per rider basis. Is this your claim?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson513
Many people have to ride the train or the bus or the subway. Cost, or time forces them to do so. But few actually want to. The private car is what people want. But, if they have to pay for it, insure it, fuel it, park it and repair it, they take what they see as the lesser of two unattractive (to them) choices.
If people use mass transit, when they could afford to drive their personal vehicle, it's because they choose to do so, i.e., they want to do so. Cost and frugality definitely may play a factor, but not always, as I discussed in my previous post. Yes, persons likely would prefer to be sufficiently wealthy to have a chauffeured personal vehicle available on demand. Excluding the cost factor is ridiculous.
Persons that I know who use mass transit daily these days often catch up on their e-mails, texts, and social media while commuting. They actually believe that they improve their daily time budget by using mass transit to commute.
Discussing this issue in the absence of hard data is somewhat a waste of time. Clearly, opinions based on personal anecdotal information and experiences can vary greatly.
It is indisputable that mass transit serves persons who can't use personal vehicles, whether for economic or other reasons, such as diminished driving skills perhaps due to aging. It's also indisputable that the favorable economics of using mass transit versus a personal vehicle increase greatly as population densities are increased.
In Lake County, voters have provided Laketran with permanent financing, definitely suggesting popular support for mass transit in this suburban county.
<<The agency’s primary source of income is a one-quarter of one percent (0.25%) permanent county sales tax, which accounts for sixty percent (60%) of Laketran’s operating budget.>>
As someone who used mass transit for a number of years, I can tell you that, as long as I could get a seat (and I could arrange my schedule in order to avoid typically crowded commuting hours), I often preferred it to driving, because parking garages downtown are a hassle and the walk was longer than to my bus stop. The big advantage to driving in cities with less robust mass transit obviously is the flexibility of having a personal vehicle. On days that I wanted that flexibility, I definitely would drive to work.
E.g., is there any factual information about the number of users of Cincinnati's I-71 bus commuter line, let alone capacity utilization of the buses, etc.? What is the cost per rider to provide the service?
I made the point in earlier posts that mass transit agencies too often closely guard statistics that they likely maintain internally, such as individual route statistics. This is detrimental IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson513
I would pay a lot of money not to be forced into an enclosed space with the stinking disorderlies who are typical on the subways and trains of major US Cities.
I never remember this as a problem, but likely I have less of a superiority complex and am more tolerant than many C-D posters. Yes, I do notice homeless individuals riding mass transit at times, but it doesn't bother me. I never remember anybody stinking, but perhaps I have a relatively poor sense of smell. I also don't feel particularly threatened by other individuals, and certainly employ street smarts when in any urban environment.
The 71X has three buses each day. All 3 packed (which they are not), would be about 200 people. That is during a period when tens of thousands of persons are commuting to town in that corridor.
People voted. Mass transportation lost. Get over it.
The 71X has three buses each day. All 3 packed (which they are not), would be about 200 people. That is during a period when tens of thousands of persons are commuting to town in that corridor.
People voted. Mass transportation lost. Get over it.
Perhaps mass transit is unpopular in Cincinnati. As I've documented, that's not true everywhere. Did you check out the landslide for a permanent mass transit levy in Lake County, a suburban county, that I linked earlier???
Your I-71 commuter service numbers appear inaccurate. The 71X service runs 7 buses each way, on a rather limited commuting hours schedule that certainly would limit ridership. You don't actually have the facts, let alone face them.
Perusing the following statistics, mass transit usage in Cincinnati apparently is much less than in other cities of comparable size. The question is why? Are resources, such as with the streetcar line, being poorly allocated? Cincinnati did have over 15 million bus passenger trips in 2016, over 41,000 per day and likely much higher on work days and if including northern KY transit trips. You apparently can't handle the facts. Bus ridership alone in Cleveland, excluding its rail lines, was over twice as great despite Cleveland being a smaller MSA, and also having separate county transit agencies also serving the MSA, such as LakeTran. Cincinnati's Metro apparently is a multi-county agency, but northern Kentucky mass transit services greatly would add another 3.5 million riders to the Cincinnati totals. Laketran and Geauga County Transit serving the Cleveland MSA are listed. The Cleveland MSA total transit trip totals, including rail transit lines, still are double the the combined Cincinnati and northern KY totals, even excluding Laketran and Geauga County Transit.
Only three in rush hour. And, if people were lined up for them like they are in NJ, there would be 20 buses or more.
Check the linked 71x schedule. There are 7 buses both in the morning and the evening and they only run during commuting hours. You were wrong by a factor of over two when you claimed initially that there were only 3 buses on that route. Pathetic that you can not admit to your erroneous statements.
Have no time for your straw man arguments (comparing Cincinnati with NJ; obviously commuting and parking costs by car to NYC dwarf those in Cincinnati, so so what?). Cincinnati also has several other suburban commuting lines than just the 71x.
Check the linked 71x schedule. There are 7 buses both in the morning and the evening and they only run during commuting hours. You were wrong by a factor of over two when you claimed initially that there were only 3 buses on that route. Pathetic that you can not admit to your erroneous statements.
Have no time for your straw man arguments (comparing Cincinnati with NJ; obviously commuting and parking costs by car to NYC dwarf those in Cincinnati, so so what?).
Do you have any clue why it is called "rush hour?"
Then you tried to weasel out of your statement when someone actually looked up the actual number of buses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson513
Only three in rush hour.
Obviously, when I challenged your deceitful redirection of the argument, by noting that all 7 buses each way run during commuting hours (a fact), more relevant because I don't know of any commuting bus lines which actually run within a single hour, your condescending defense was even more pathetic:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson513
Do you have any clue why it is called "rush hour?"
I'll give you a clue. Its an hour.
Nobody needs a clue to state the obvious. You were wrong and your argument from the beginning has been deceitful.
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