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Location: Austin, TX/Chicago, IL/Houston, TX/Washington, DC
10,138 posts, read 16,043,145 times
Reputation: 4047
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly
I know this inst posed at me, but unless this growth gets fueled by something other the Federal Gov't in the coming years or flattens it will mean to me we are continuing to build a huge debt and a vastly too large Federal Gov't - Growth overall is good but when fuled by a larger Gov't, to me not so much...
Growth is good when it is sustainable, or when its benefiting the area and not too dependent on one sector.
Pre-1980's Houston was completely on one sector, and that was Oil & Gas, and the Oil Bust actually caused the city & metropolitan area to lose population in the years 1985, 1986, & 1987. The total increase rate for both the city and the metropolitan area were low. For the city it was about 2.1% increase rate from the decade prior to the bust.
That is unsustainable growth that relies on one sector to develop. I think Washington DC for a Northeast city is experiencing that, and although there is no sign of the Federal Government walking away with all its influence just yet, Washington DC still needs to ask itself what if it were to happen today, what is the Plan B?
Just like you, political parties and affiliations aside, I am more against centralized government. I love the city, probably more than any major city in the country but the Federal Government is cancerous. It's involved in like half of Washington DC's economy in one way or another whether its funding or building defense and other programs.
The last of the Aeronautics Industry in Los Angeles is moving to Washington DC in June 2011. Los Angeles completely robbed of an entire sector of its economy in 7 years (since 2003) since the Aeronautics Industry started relocating to Miami, Houston, Chicago, Seattle, & Washington DC.
Growth is good when it is sustainable, or when its benefiting the area and not too dependent on one sector.
Pre-1980's Houston was completely on one sector, and that was Oil & Gas, and the Oil Bust actually caused the city & metropolitan area to lose population in the years 1985, 1986, & 1987. The total increase rate for both the city and the metropolitan area were low. For the city it was about 2.1% increase rate from the decade prior to the bust.
That is unsustainable growth that relies on one sector to develop. I think Washington DC for a Northeast city is experiencing that, and although there is no sign of the Federal Government walking away with all its influence just yet, Washington DC still needs to ask itself what if it were to happen today, what is the Plan B?
Just like you, political parties and affiliations aside, I am more against centralized government. I love the city, probably more than any major city in the country but the Federal Government is cancerous. It's involved in like half of Washington DC's economy in one way or another whether its funding or building defense and other programs.
The last of the Aeronautics Industry in Los Angeles is moving to Washington DC in June 2011. Los Angeles completely robbed of an entire sector of its economy in 7 years (since 2003) since the Aeronautics Industry started relocating to Miami, Houston, Chicago, Seattle, & Washington DC.
I agree with what both of you are saying here. The problem is that what the Government installs, it rarely takes away. The more jobs and policies you create, the more you have to create to negate what was previously done.
This is different than Houston, because Houston was putting itself on the map when its economy was not as diversified. Because it's not DC, I think it has the ability to be more fluid and to survive better (this has been shown over the last 10 years). DC can only be so flexible, because that Government component will always be there.
I don't know whether to assume DC will hit rough times or that the rest of the country will hit rough times because of what goes on in DC (continuous expansion of govt).
Location: Austin, TX/Chicago, IL/Houston, TX/Washington, DC
10,138 posts, read 16,043,145 times
Reputation: 4047
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJNEOA
I agree with what both of you are saying here. The problem is that what the Government installs, it rarely takes away. The more jobs and policies you create, the more you have to create to negate what was previously done.
This is different than Houston, because Houston was putting itself on the map when its economy was not as diversified. Because it's not DC, I think it has the ability to be more fluid and to survive better (this has been shown over the last 10 years). DC can only be so flexible, because that Government component will always be there.
I don't know whether to assume DC will hit rough times or that the rest of the country will hit rough times because of what goes on in DC (continuous expansion of govt).
It's happened before.
Do you remember when Washington DC was first established it had more land area than it does now? Virginia actually took back its land area across the Potomac River. It was mainly because Washington DC entered a period of economic decline at that point and that area in Virginia was far too removed and economically ruined for Washington DC to support.
So it was ceded back to Virginia. Washington DC contrary to belief has seen some very devastating times within itself. And the city recently in the last decade and a half has had a complete resurgence leading it to prosper beyond belief. The place replaced Chicago just 2 years ago as the 3rd largest economy by economic output of CSA. That's very astonishing, and it's become very wealthy.
But the thing is, it has to sustain itself. I agree with Washington DC, it cant get away from its industry, because that's integrated within Washington DC's heart. Houston can always minimize its industries role and create other sectors to rely upon, but Washington DC cant do that.
I don't know exactly what direction Washington DC will be headed in the future, but I really hope and wish that it continues to stay prosperous, and that every city in America, including Las Vegas & Detroit become prosperous.
I agree with what both of you are saying here. The problem is that what the Government installs, it rarely takes away. The more jobs and policies you create, the more you have to create to negate what was previously done.
This is different than Houston, because Houston was putting itself on the map when its economy was not as diversified. Because it's not DC, I think it has the ability to be more fluid and to survive better (this has been shown over the last 10 years). DC can only be so flexible, because that Government component will always be there.
I don't know whether to assume DC will hit rough times or that the rest of the country will hit rough times because of what goes on in DC (continuous expansion of govt).
I agree - there are lots of similarities among the rapidly growing areas of the country with the exception one, anyone care to guess
Houston/DFW/RDU/Atlanta etc. are all expanding the workbase and growing by attracting Buisness and providing decent wages and relatively cheap land.
DC is the outlier - and on growth of 14% as referenced earlier for DC - just some simple math lets say 60% is Fed/Fed supporting related (though one could argue 70%) the non Fed growth rate is closer to 6 to 7% much more in line with more expensive metros and/or mature metros though I still believe DC is in the maturing phase moreso relative other NE metros for example
Now that is not saying there are no other industries in DC and many great aspects of the MSA but lets not be shortsighted in the driver of the growth and prosperity of this area, gov't will not go away obviously but to believe it can continue to grow at it's current rate or even contract (which I personally would advocate) is also shortsighted. We are not a socialist society, DC for better or worsethese days is a bit of perverse socialism, I for one am not thrilled with.
DC began it's very prosperous phase under Clinton with the consolidaion of Gov't services, then was further fueled by deficit spending under Bush and further perpetuated under Obama. My points are by no means anti Republican or anti Democrat (and by no means a tea party backer) more anti spend out of control on the Federal Behemoth. As part os this DC has been far the largest benfactor among large MSAs. I hope the best for DC truly and moreso hope the best for the US and what is taking place in DC as far as spend has got to stop or we are all in more trouble than we are today
I thought so too at first because there were a few cities that I didn't see that I thought were viable, Boston, San Francisco, & Dallas-Fort Worth.
It's by Metropolitan Statistical Areas (MSA) according to the article.
This article seems to be dated in 2003 though. There has been significant changes since then, half of these Metropolitan Areas are like 800,000 people larger now and in Washington DC's case, 500,000 people larger.
Dallas people don't kill me, but I read an article (I think it was by the Reserve Bank) that Dallas economy is diverse on a regional scale not national scale and that there are few national/ international industries.
Not my opinion but the article listed shipping, tech and some other things as Dallas's national industries
Do you remember when Washington DC was first established it had more land area than it does now? Virginia actually took back its land area across the Potomac River. It was mainly because Washington DC entered a period of economic decline at that point and that area in Virginia was far too removed and economically ruined for Washington DC to support.
So it was ceded back to Virginia. Washington DC contrary to belief has seen some very devastating times within itself. And the city recently in the last decade and a half has had a complete resurgence leading it to prosper beyond belief. The place replaced Chicago just 2 years ago as the 3rd largest economy by economic output of CSA. That's very astonishing, and it's become very wealthy.
But the thing is, it has to sustain itself. I agree with Washington DC, it cant get away from its industry, because that's integrated within Washington DC's heart. Houston can always minimize its industries role and create other sectors to rely upon, but Washington DC cant do that.
I don't know exactly what direction Washington DC will be headed in the future, but I really hope and wish that it continues to stay prosperous, and that every city in America, including Las Vegas & Detroit become prosperous.
DC is insulated enough that it would likely never see the downturn of a Detroit or LV but at the current pace something has to give in DC - i look at DC kind of like the market prices in the market during the .com craze DC today is overprised, land wise and over employed Gov't wise - it actually in somes ways could be scary but DC will weather the storm but could experience hard times and this could be the same time the rest of the US starts prospering again oddly
Dallas people don't kill me, but I read an article (I think it was by the Reserve Bank) that Dallas economy is diverse on a regional scale not national scale and that there are few national/ international industries.
Not my opinion but the article listed shipping, tech and some other things as Dallas's national industries
Dallas' $380 billion dollar economy comes from somewhere.
Can we really name one thing Dallas is huge in? If they didnt have a diverse economy, we could name at least one. They are big in IT and tech jobs and they ave some energy jobs, but other than that what is DFW really huge in?
Dallas' $380 billion dollar economy comes from somewhere.
Can we really name one thing Dallas is huge in? If they didnt have a diverse economy, we could name at least one. They are big in IT and tech jobs and they ave some energy jobs, but other than that what is DFW really huge in?
don't shoot the messenger.
But your line of deduction was similar to the article. I think they classified 'National Economy' based on market share.
I think they said it had a significant share in shipping and tech, but not in many other areas. they were doing well in many things but not top in the industry on any one thing.
as a whole they said the Texas triangle as a whole was not diverse economically on a national scale because we shared sectors a whole lot. They said that the Triangle cities had a total of about 50 sectors individually, but as a triangle the area only had 11 different sectors. For example, both Dallas and Houston was big on oil and shipping, so what would be counted as 4 individually is counted as two instead.
I agree - there are lots of similarities among the rapidly growing areas of the country with the exception one, anyone care to guess
Houston/DFW/RDU/Atlanta etc. are all expanding the workbase and growing by attracting Buisness and providing decent wages and relatively cheap land.
DC is the outlier - and on growth of 14% as referenced earlier for DC - just some simple math lets say 60% is Fed/Fed supporting related (though one could argue 70%) the non Fed growth rate is closer to 6 to 7% much more in line with more expensive metros and/or mature metros though I still believe DC is in the maturing phase moreso relative other NE metros for example
Now that is not saying there are no other industries in DC and many great aspects of the MSA but lets not be shortsighted in the driver of the growth and prosperity of this area, gov't will not go away obviously but to believe it can continue to grow at it's current rate or even contract (which I personally would advocate) is also shortsighted. We are not a socialist society, DC for better or worsethese days is a bit of perverse socialism, I for one am not thrilled with.
DC began it's very prosperous phase under Clinton with the consolidaion of Gov't services, then was further fueled by deficit spending under Bush and further perpetuated under Obama. My points are by no means anti Republican or anti Democrat (and by no means a tea party backer) more anti spend out of control on the Federal Behemoth. As part os this DC has been far the largest benfactor among large MSAs. I hope the best for DC truly and moreso hope the best for the US and what is taking place in DC as far as spend has got to stop or we are all in more trouble than we are today
off soap box
Continue the discussion...
Funny thing is that I have family in DC. A couple work for the government, a couple work as lobbyists (not representative of my family...a rare case). When we visit them, they really come across as stuffy and a bit elitist. It's strange, because I see the pink elephant in the room, but they ignore it.
It's not to say that DC is elitist or that those family members are representative of your typical DC resident, but I think that with this bloated Government model, a growing number of people have their heads in the clouds because they believe they've found true stability. Maybe they have, maybe they haven't, but I view the whole thing as a teeter totter...the Government sector cannot outweigh the private sector or the game is over.
Wow, I knew Finance made up 18% of New York City's economy or so but I had no idea that it would rank so low (69th).
Yeah, I have seen the results of this article elsewhere before in other sources too. It's highly understood that Philadelphia, Chicago, & Atlanta have diverse economies.
I just never knew Miami would come in 22nd. And I never knew Washington DC would come in 90th. I am curious to have seen where Dallas-Fort Worth would have ranked, I was expecting to see it in the Top 10. Overall though, great link!
Dannyy - You have any idea why NYC does rank so low? I'm assuming it's because when an industry becomes so strong (e.g. Banking), it just receives exponential growth due to proximity to others in the industry, resources, etc... I'm not sure if there's an explanation outside of this theory though.
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