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Old 03-29-2012, 10:19 AM
 
637 posts, read 1,016,837 times
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Well, since my whole assumption that SF-SJ = Philadelphia-New York got not only quashed, but pretty much aborted, it spurned an idea for this thread.

I realized that it's somewhat rare to have 2 metro areas that have at least 2 million people in each of the areas to be within 100 miles of each other. I find it interesting that nowadays, these sorts of places are beginning to grow right into each other.

Instead of making a poll, I decided just to post some maps and have some discussion on the future of growth between those two metro regions are, and whether or not they will fully connect via development and could, conceivably one day just be considered one mega metro region.

I'll start by posting maps and my thoughts



This is the first region I think will have the most connectivity in the future. Given that there is only 46 miles separating the city borders of both Philadelphia and New York City and the fast suburbanization and urbanization of places like the Lehigh Valley and Central New Jersey, the development along the NYC and Philadelphia CSA border will be palpable. As you can see from the map, its already beginning to happen.



SoCal is an interesting story. Given the mountainous terrain and the presence of a marine corp base between Los Angeles and San Diego, I don't think that the borders of these areas will ever fully bleed into each other. With that being said, I would be curious to see if there are any mass commuters going between those areas.



Milwaukee-Chicago have a higher chance of developing into each other, and at least along Lake Michigan in a thin strip, already have in a dense matter. Given that there are no natural constraints and the fact that it's only a mere 80 miles from Chicago to Milwaukee downtown to downtown, these areas can soon connect.



Here's one that I don't hear about very much but is interesting to put into the conversation. The area between the Bay Area and the Central Valley, especially a place like Sacramento, may actually grow into each other one day. However, unlike the above metros, there is still a minor but noticeable gap of literally nothing (notice the tract with less than 50 ppsm) between Sacramento and the Bay Area exurbs that have put a dent in people's perceptions on how these two areas are developing.



I didn't post this one up merely because of Baltimore and DC, though within 5-10 years, I expect the border between them to blur and an MSA designation will be given instead of a CSA one, but I posted this to note the northward growth of Baltimore toward Philadelphia. However, there are natural constraints (much of this area is very swampy and protected) and Baltimore/Philadelphia don't seem to be growing in each other's directions. That being said, this corridor will be the one to watch out for.



Tampa-Orlando is interesting, to say the least. There is straight line-snake like development between the two, but much of it is of the lighter density type. However, given that there is a high speed rail line set to connect the two, I can see growing connections between Tampa and Orlando. There are already plenty of Magic fans in Tampa, and Buccanner and Rays fans in Orlando, and given that the area is high growing, we could see more connection between the two.

If anyone else has any 2 million+ connected pairs that seem to be growing into each other within 100 miles, let me know and I'll give some analysis at least from a map point of view on it.
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Old 03-29-2012, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
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Well, I'd suggest San Antonio & Austin but you're saying 2+ million metros...yet you included Milwaukee and Sacramento, so...up to you.
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Old 03-29-2012, 10:39 AM
 
Location: The City
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Look at Akron and Cleveland; a very connected set of cities differentiated by the census


The whole RDU area as well


Ft Lauderdale and Miami

Some people claim some connectivity for SA and Austin - seems more of a stretch to me
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Old 03-29-2012, 10:43 AM
 
Location: The City
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Also for a CSA to be established there are very distinct criteria associated with core county commuter rates. FOr Philly and NYC there is considerable commuter volumes between the MSAs (100's of thousands) but the actual core county rates are not enough to create a realistic CSA


Also the super commuter thread is kind of interesting as well

Super commuting corridors

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Old 03-29-2012, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
1,299 posts, read 2,775,648 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Look at Akron and Cleveland; a very connected set of cities differentiated by the census


The whole RDU area as well


Ft Lauderdale and Miami

Some people claim some connectivity for SA and Austin - seems more of a stretch to me
I don't really think they're connected at all. Was just pointing out 2 metros of at or near 2 million than are within 100 mi of each other
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Old 03-29-2012, 11:04 AM
 
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What are you using for those maps Foodie?

Also I'd be interested in seeing Indianpolis-Louisville-Cincinnati-Dayton-Columbus

Cincinnati is over the 2 million and Columbus is damn close. Louisville and Indianapolis are both close to Cincinnati but seem very much separated by growth patterns. Still would be nice to see.
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Old 03-29-2012, 11:06 AM
 
Location: The City
22,378 posts, read 38,951,203 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersDrift View Post
What are you using for those maps Foodie?

Also I'd be interested in seeing Indianpolis-Louisville-Cincinnati-Dayton-Columbus

Cincinnati is over the 2 million and Columbus is damn close. Louisville and Indianapolis are both close to Cincinnati but seem very much separated by growth patterns. Still would be nice to see.

Think they are from a NY Times link somewhere to access the density maps; then you zoom in
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Old 03-29-2012, 11:09 AM
 
Location: The City
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Mapping the 2010 U.S. Census - NYTimes.com


And these are pretty cool too

Mapping America ? Census Bureau 2005-9 American Community Survey - NYTimes.com
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Old 03-29-2012, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,495 posts, read 32,970,870 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnLion512 View Post
I don't really think they're connected at all. Was just pointing out 2 metros of at or near 2 million than are within 100 mi of each other
The Urban area maps show that Austin is not even connected to San Marcos and San Antonio is not even connected to New Braunfils. San Marcos and NB are in between Austin and SA and there are big gaps between the city and its burb let alone between Austin and SA.

It will take decades if ever for those two to be connected, and it would be a travesty if they do. The areas beauty would be paved over
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Old 03-29-2012, 11:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnLion512 View Post
Well, I'd suggest San Antonio & Austin but you're saying 2+ million metros...yet you included Milwaukee and Sacramento, so...up to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnLion512 View Post
Well, I'd suggest San Antonio & Austin but you're saying 2+ million metros...yet you included Milwaukee and Sacramento, so...up to you.
Sacramento's MSA is above 2 million and CSA wise is closer to 2.5 million. Please advise if something changed within the past 24 hours that I should be aware of.

Milwaukee isn't, but at nearly 1.8 million, close enough.

And I could've just forgot in the moment to include San Antonio and Austin...no need to get angry at me. As I said I may have forgot some areas so it would be interesting to add. Here it is:



There does seem to be a strip of development along I-35, and the denser areas of New Braunfels and San Marcos seem to be touching. Whats interesting about Austin-SA is that both poles are of equal size, so it would be interesting to see how interplay between the two play out. Possibility of a Southern Metroplex? Only time can tell.

Quote:
Look at Akron and Cleveland; a very connected set of cities differentiated by the census


The whole RDU area as well


Ft Lauderdale and Miami

Some people claim some connectivity for SA and Austin - seems more of a stretch to me
Akron and Cleveland are already connected via CSA classification, but not MSA.
RDU is the same case as Akron-Cleveland
Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, and West Palm Beach are already considered one MSA by the US Census, but don't have an attached CSA.

I'm actually going for two 2 million+ metro areas withn 100 miles of each other that are relatively independent from each other that are happening to be developing into each other for whatever reason. As in, the US government doesn't have an MSA or CSA distinction encompassing over both metro areas. If that makes sense or not.

Quote:
What are you using for those maps Foodie?
Mapping the 2010 U.S. Census - NYTimes.com (/census/2010/map - broken link)
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