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One thing I never really understood about philly was why the low-rise historic buildings were built in more of a trolley-car neighborhood way instead of being closer to downtown: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9526...7i16384!8i8192
This street view looks like it could be smack dab in the middle of Chicago. Quintessential Chicago North Side style neighborhood street.
But I don't think it feels as big as Philly, no matter how you extend the boundaries. Because it's not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Shudra
I’ll see if I can put some numbers to the question later.
Here we go!
Central Boston - using a "Kenmore to North Station" definition
02215 - Fenway - 26,243 people in 0.765 square miles
02115 - Longwood/East Fens - 29,134 people in 0.709 square miles
02199 - Prudential Complex - 1,435 people in 0.057 square miles
02118 - South End - 28,892 people in 1.096 square miles
02116 - Back Bay/Bay Village - 23,007 people in 0.631 square miles
02111 - Chinatown - 7,949 people in 0.27 square miles
02108 - Beacon Hill - 4,520 people in 0.136 square miles
02110 - Post Office Square - 2,340 people in 0.181 square miles
02109 - Quincy Market - 3,639 people in 0.173 square miles
02203 - Gov. Center - 24 people (not kidding) in 0.032 square miles
02114 - North Slope/West End - 13,260 people in 0.449 square miles
02113 - North End - 7,339 people in 0.1 square miles.
Total - 147,782 people in 4.599 square miles.
Density - 32,133.51 people per square mile.
Center City Philadelphia - based on the definition I found online
19103 - Rittenhouse/Logan Squares - 25,113 people in 0.639 square miles
19102 - West of City Hall - 5,335 people in 0.189 square miles
19107 - Chinatown/Wash Square West - 14,689 people in 0.549 square miles
19106 - Society Hill - 13,536 people in 0.803 square miles
Total - 58,673 people in 2.18 square miles.
Density - 26,914 people per square mile.
------------------------------
Now clearly the above two aren't apples and oranges in terms of area. There are two things that can be done - we can expand our borders for Philly or we can retract them for Boston. We will do the former first.
I'm going to add the 2 southernmost neighborhoods in North Philly and the two northernmost ones in South Philly. All still east of the Schuylkill.
19123 - Northern Liberties - 17,793 people in 1.268 square miles
19130 - Fairmount - 28,010 people in 1.294 square miles
19146 - Point Breeze - 40,635 people in 1.689 square miles
19147 - Bella Vista - 38,809 people in 1.408 square miles
New Total - 183,920 people in 7.839 square miles
New Density - 23,462.18 people per square mile.
We can actually bring the Boston zip-amalgamation pretty close to the new Philly one by adding three more:
02120 - Mission Hill - 15,210 people in 0.621 square miles
02129 - Charlestown - 20,504 people in 1.351 square miles
02210 - Seaport - 4,538 people in 0.961 square miles
New Total - 188,034 people in 7.532 square miles
New Density - 24,964.68 people per square miles
---------------------------------
So, Boston's still bigger/denser with the larger definition. Let's shrink it now. We will do so by removing the zip codes for Fenway (02215), Longwood/East Fens (02115), and the South End (02118) from the original definition above.
This leaves us with a definition that is basically "Everything touching the Common", so Back Bay, Chinatown, Beacon Hill, Post Office Square, etc.
New Total - 63,513 people in 2.029 square miles.
New Density - 31,302.61 people per square miles.
----------------------------------
Now's your turn to call me names and say how I cheated and how my methods are so unfair. That the data is so cherry-picked. Blah blah blah.
Regardless, based on my research and the data presented in this post, I refuse to believe that Downtown Philly is inarguably larger than Downtown Boston and I refuse to be belittled for believing otherwise.
The numbers for the population data came from the 2020 ACS 5-year estimates shown on this table here. The data for the land area of the zip codes was taken from the 2020 Gazetteer Files here.
Last edited by Boston Shudra; 11-23-2022 at 02:28 PM..
Central Boston - using a "Kenmore to North Station" or "Adjacent to the High Spine" definition
02215 - Fenway - 26,243 people in 0.765 square miles
02115 - Longwood/East Fens - 29,134 people in 0.709 square miles
02199 - Prudential Complex - 1,435 people in 0.057 square miles
02118 - South End - 28,892 people in 1.096 square miles
02116 - Back Bay/Bay Village - 23,007 people in 0.631 square miles
02111 - Chinatown - 7,949 people in 0.27 square miles
02108 - Beacon Hill - 4,520 people in 0.136 square miles
02110 - Post Office Square - 2,340 people in 0.181 square miles
02109 - Quincy Market - 3,639 people in 0.173 square miles
02203 - Gov. Center - 24 people (not kidding) in 0.032 square miles
02114 - West Slope/West End - 13,260 people in 0.449 square miles
02113 - North End - 7,339 people in 0.1 square miles.
Total - 147,782 people in 4.599 square miles.
Density - 32,133.51 people per square mile.
Center City Philadelphia - based on the definition I found online
19103 - Rittenhouse/Logan Squares - 25,113 people in 0.639 square miles
19102 - West of City Hall - 5,335 people in 0.189 square miles
19107 - Chinatown/Wash Square West - 14,689 people in 0.549 square miles
19106 - Society Hill - 13,536 people in 0.803 square miles
Total - 58,673 people in 2.18 square miles.
Density - 26,914 people per square mile.
------------------------------
Now clearly the above two aren't apples and oranges in terms of area. There are two things that can be done - we can expand our borders for Philly or we can retract them for Boston. We will do the former first.
I'm going to add the 2 southernmost neighborhoods in North Philly and the two northernmost ones in South Philly. All still east of the Schuylkill.
19123 - Northern Liberties - 17,793 people in 1.268 square miles
19130 - Fairmount - 28,010 people in 1.294 square miles
19146 - Point Breeze - 40,635 people in 1.689 square miles
19147 - Bella Vista - 38,809 people in 1.408 square miles
New Total - 183,920 people in 7.839 square miles
New Density - 23,462.18 people per square mile.
Boston zips are smaller than Philly ones. We can actually bring the Boston zip-amalgamation pertty close to the new Philly one by adding three more:
02120 - Mission Hill - 15,210 people in 0.621 square miles
02129 - Charlestown - 20,504 people in 1.351 square miles
02210 - Seaport - 4,538 people in 0.961 square miles
New Total - 188,034 people in 7.532 square miles
New Density - 24,964.68 people per square miles
---------------------------------
So, Boston's still bigger/denser with the larger definition. Let's shrink it now. We will do so by removing the zip codes for Fenway (02215), Longwood/East Fens (02115), and the South End (02118) from the original definition above.
This leaves us with a definition that is basically "Everything touching the Common", so Back Bay, Chinatown, Beacon Hill, Post Office Square, etc.
New Total - 63,513 people in 2.029 square miles.
New Density - 31,302.61 people per square miles.
----------------------------------
Now's your turn to call me names and say how I cheated and how my methods are so unfair. That the data is so cherry-picked. Blah blah blah.
Regardless, based on my research and the data presented in this post, I refuse to believe that Downtown Philly is inarguably larger than downtown Boston and I refuse to be belittled for believing otherwise.
The numbers for the population data came from the 2020 ACS 5-year estimates and this table here. The data for the land area of the zip codes was taken from the 2020 Gazetteer Files here.
That was pretty good analysis. Though, University City, 19104, is generally also considered a part of the "downtown" area.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,560,868 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthmatic Enemy Of God
Which city has a more urban big city feel to it.
Philadelphia easily. SF seems very intense and dense, but limited and compact in the grand scheme of things. Boston feels big mainly when including the suburbs. Philadelphia already is "big city".
Last edited by the resident09; 11-23-2022 at 02:32 PM..
You know for years you have tried to troll like this...
IMO SF and Philly do the "in the dense city" views much better than Boston.
"A few towers"... followed by your picture of a sea of tall buildings. That made me laugh.
That guy is a long time troll (as you pointed out).
And having been to all 3 a lot, they're all large dense cities, but I think Philadelphia feels the biggest and it's technically the biggest. I will be out and about in Philly in a few hours actually!
Also looks exactly like parts of Allston/Brighton or northern Brookline!
Now that you mention it, yes, it strongly resembles the parts of Allston and Brookline on either side of Harvard Avenue from Beacon Street north to Cambridge Street.
—MSE, who lived in that part of Allston for a while
Central Boston - using a "Kenmore to North Station" definition
02215 - Fenway - 26,243 people in 0.765 square miles
02115 - Longwood/East Fens - 29,134 people in 0.709 square miles
02199 - Prudential Complex - 1,435 people in 0.057 square miles
02118 - South End - 28,892 people in 1.096 square miles
02116 - Back Bay/Bay Village - 23,007 people in 0.631 square miles
02111 - Chinatown - 7,949 people in 0.27 square miles
02108 - Beacon Hill - 4,520 people in 0.136 square miles
02110 - Post Office Square - 2,340 people in 0.181 square miles
02109 - Quincy Market - 3,639 people in 0.173 square miles
02203 - Gov. Center - 24 people (not kidding) in 0.032 square miles
02114 - North Slope/West End - 13,260 people in 0.449 square miles
02113 - North End - 7,339 people in 0.1 square miles.
Total - 147,782 people in 4.599 square miles.
Density - 32,133.51 people per square mile.
Center City Philadelphia - based on the definition I found online
19103 - Rittenhouse/Logan Squares - 25,113 people in 0.639 square miles
19102 - West of City Hall - 5,335 people in 0.189 square miles
19107 - Chinatown/Wash Square West - 14,689 people in 0.549 square miles
19106 - Society Hill - 13,536 people in 0.803 square miles
Total - 58,673 people in 2.18 square miles.
Density - 26,914 people per square mile.
------------------------------
Now clearly the above two aren't apples and oranges in terms of area. There are two things that can be done - we can expand our borders for Philly or we can retract them for Boston. We will do the former first.
I'm going to add the 2 southernmost neighborhoods in North Philly and the two northernmost ones in South Philly. All still east of the Schuylkill.
19123 - Northern Liberties - 17,793 people in 1.268 square miles
19130 - Fairmount - 28,010 people in 1.294 square miles
19146 - Point Breeze - 40,635 people in 1.689 square miles
19147 - Bella Vista - 38,809 people in 1.408 square miles
New Total - 183,920 people in 7.839 square miles
New Density - 23,462.18 people per square mile.
We can actually bring the Boston zip-amalgamation pretty close to the new Philly one by adding three more:
02120 - Mission Hill - 15,210 people in 0.621 square miles
02129 - Charlestown - 20,504 people in 1.351 square miles
02210 - Seaport - 4,538 people in 0.961 square miles
New Total - 188,034 people in 7.532 square miles
New Density - 24,964.68 people per square miles
---------------------------------
So, Boston's still bigger/denser with the larger definition. Let's shrink it now. We will do so by removing the zip codes for Fenway (02215), Longwood/East Fens (02115), and the South End (02118) from the original definition above.
This leaves us with a definition that is basically "Everything touching the Common", so Back Bay, Chinatown, Beacon Hill, Post Office Square, etc.
New Total - 63,513 people in 2.029 square miles.
New Density - 31,302.61 people per square miles.
----------------------------------
Now's your turn to call me names and say how I cheated and how my methods are so unfair. That the data is so cherry-picked. Blah blah blah.
Regardless, based on my research and the data presented in this post, I refuse to believe that Downtown Philly is inarguably larger than Downtown Boston and I refuse to be belittled for believing otherwise.
The numbers for the population data came from the 2020 ACS 5-year estimates shown on this table here. The data for the land area of the zip codes was taken from the 2020 Gazetteer Files here.
This post feels deeply personal.
While I appreciate the data, I never disputed that Boston's core and surrounding neighborhoods feel as dense as Philadelphia's (in terms of population). That data doesn't really mean Boston feels bigger, or feels more like a big city.
Using your methodology above, San Francisco would be the largest of the three... I'd assume by a healthy margin.
Philadelphia has the more grandiose downtown/city center. And it has nearly 2.5x the population, yes, across a much larger area. When you drive up to, and in Philadelphia, it feels noticeably more extensive.
*One thing I will admit... And I'm sure this got brought up at some point... But based on the data I am seeing, I didn't realize Philadelphia actually has the smallest skyline, based on 300 ft. + buildings. SF at 32, Boston at 27, Philly at 23. That does surprise me.
*The other thing I'd add, is that when you include Boston's sister cities - which we won't due to avoid any confusion or conflict - the gap narrows in feel. Cambridge is a beast in terms of urbanity, and adds it's own mini-skyline and 100k+ in population.
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