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The only part of MetroRail that kinda takes you nowhere(not in the literal rural sense) is the Northern terminus of MetroRail. Palmetto, Hialeah, Browsnville, and Earlington Heights Stations are in urban, dense, areas, but I wouldn't call these areas "places of interest". But having said that, once you get North to the "Northside" stations that's where you reach the Metro Rail/Tri-Rail transfer station, which can take you further North through Greater South Florida and to more places of interest. But South Florida will be creating another tri-rail line that runs through the downtowns and the coastal areas of Palm Beach, Broward and Dade. They'll run along the old FEC lines.
Then on top of that, All-Aboard Florida High-Speed Rail has been approved, and it will connect the Downtowns of West Palm, Miami, and Fort Lauderdale to Orlando via High-Speed Rail. South Florida is about to explode with new rail-based PT, and they're all trying to do this in time to get the host bid for Superbowl 50. Superbowl 50's gonna be HUGE from what I hear.
Yes! On top of the HSR that All Aboard Florida is building, there are plans to start commuter rail on the FEC tracks in the relatively near future which makes much more sense. Even with it's decent ridership, Tri-Rail doesn't go through the historic hubs of the cities that run up the coast of South Florida. An FEC line would go through pretty much the center of every primary city in South Florida and is much more practical than tri-rail which really isn't that convinient imo. Most of the areas Tri-Rail services are in more industrial/office areas that are west of the densest residential areas, particularly in North Broward/Palm Beach. I really don't understand why commuter rail hasn't occurred on the FEC tracks it's a no brainer but this is Floriduh. Pompano, Fort Lauderdale, and Hollywood are already very dense by national standards near the FEC tracks and all have plans for TODs around the FEC tracks
Yes! On top of the HSR that All Aboard Florida is building, there are plans to start commuter rail on the FEC tracks in the relatively near future which makes much more sense. Even with it's decent ridership, Tri-Rail doesn't go through the historic hubs of the cities that run up the coast of South Florida. An FEC line would go through pretty much the center of every primary city in South Florida and is much more practical than tri-rail which really isn't that convinient imo. Most of the areas Tri-Rail services are in more industrial/office areas that are west of the densest residential areas, particularly in North Broward/Palm Beach. I really don't understand why commuter rail hasn't occurred on the FEC tracks it's a no brainer but this is Floriduh. Pompano, Fort Lauderdale, and Hollywood are already very dense by national standards near the FEC tracks and all have plans for TODs around the FEC tracks
Yeah, I don't know why Tri-Rail wasn't built closer to the coast in the 1st place. But I guess the buslines that feed into Tri-Rail have helped people get from Point A to Point B despite how far West Tri-Rail is.
You just don't wanna give Dallas credit for anything. I'm from Houston but Dallas has the better transit BY FAR. Houston has more buses because it HAS too. Its the 4th largest city in the US and thats pretty much the only public transportation option besides that one little light rail line.
Exactly. I will say Houston has the more efficient overall transit system. But rail easily goes to Dallas. Again, they aren't the same type of system. Houston is a glorified streetcar for most of the system even when the expansions are down. Dallas system outside downtown and a couple parts on the green line in southeast Dallas are not ran on the street. I was also comparing only Dart to Miami metro only. Not including the commuter rails. Just the inner city transit and I still pick dart slightly. Both are improving rapidly. I wish Miami could have extended the metro rail up 27th ave to the Broward-Dade line. My family would have loved that because they lived in Carol City when it was called that and also Miramar. Oh well.
Try getting around doing regular things in Miami and Dallas and pay close attention to two things
Already did that.
I put my car away when I'm either lazy, tired of driving, or after I get a traffic violation and don't want to be behind the wheel for a certain point.
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Originally Posted by HtownLove
Time and $$$ in comparison to driving
Sounds more like a time management crisis? I've used MUNI and BART in the Bay Area, they move slow and it was still worth it because it kept me off the road and it still got me to where I needed to be. BART takes you straight from SFO to downtown, no cab needed.
Money? I'm sure paying a few dollars for transit beats 20 miles + of driving on a daily basis and having to fill up consistently. On average when I drive, I fill up every three days. My car gets me something like 14 miles per gallon and I'm well aware of the supercharger being my fault and not having that as an excuse but transit's just a far better option.
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Originally Posted by HtownLove
The top two complaints about DART is accessibility and time.
Leaving early to get from point A to point B would be my suggestion to those with the complain on "time".
Neither are my complaints. The way I see it, I save cash from having to fill up on and I still get to where I need to, by leaving early and managing my time best.
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Originally Posted by HtownLove
Southern Florida is a lot more compact but they really do have a more extensive system.
their bus fleet is massive. They have many buses feeding into the rail like Metro does here in Houston
Yeah except I'm not talking about bus fleet, I'm talking about rail serving the city. If I were to live in say Deep Ellum and for my grocery, nightlife, dining, entertainment, work related (let's say downtown Dallas), and access to the international airport, would DART be able to service my needs by rail? I've used it, it can.
As convenient as buses may possibly be, I'd rather venture out walking or biking than taking those. Every city has a bus fleet. Every single last one of them. They don't substitute a good rail transit system, regardless where they go.
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Originally Posted by HtownLove
and the fields I talk about are actual stations. There are quite a few stations to no where.
Which ones inside the city of Dallas are stations to no where?
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Originally Posted by HtownLove
In the end its cheaper to just drive to where you are going in DFW than take PT. Miami, that is not always the case. The only place I can say the in Texas is TMC. It is definitely cheaper to ride the rail there than drive. Thats why the bulk of the medical workers ride the rail.
It is not cheaper to drive.
I don't know about you but paying for car insurance monthly never really comes close to putting a smile on my face. Nor does having to service the car every three months. Or to take time out of the day to "schedule" sticker changes and for that you have to go to not one but two different (probably opposite ends of the city) places for each sticker. Then you have the maniacs walking around with their keys in their hands waiting to key cars, damage it, accidentally hit it, pot holes, paying to park, alignment issues (especially with hilly topography), and so on. Oh and all the while you're adding mileage (wear and tear) to your car, sounds really bad to me.
How is it cheaper to drive + own a car than to rely entirely off DART for all your needs? Get a monthly pass. You can get to majority of the places you need to be in Dallas, particularly the Dallas side of the Metroplex (excluding some areas like Irving and so on) with DART including the airport. How is it cheaper to drive from Garland to Deep Ellum rather than just paying a transit fare?
So what you have to leave an hour early? Is it really logical to be driving from Uptown to the airport when you can just pack your bags, board DART, transfer to the Orange Line and get to the airport? Also saves you whatever length of money from not having to put your car outside on a surface lot at the airport and paying for each day it's there.
I cant imagine anyone seriously getting so bent out of shape over something like $3-$5 and choosing to drive when they know they don't have to.
I'm with Spade on this. I don't think of either Miami or Dallas as problematic transit cities for the areas they serve. They can improve and expand more, sure thing, definitely. They could also promote more rail ridership and it would be in their best interest to but both cities have a backbone to get you to the bulk of places you want to be in. I give the edge to DART.
Last edited by Trafalgar Law; 03-25-2013 at 05:43 AM..
I put my car away when I'm either lazy, tired of driving, or after I get a traffic violation and don't want to be behind the wheel for a certain point.
you clearly did that as leisure, not as a way of life. There is a big difference between not having a care in the world about what time you get there, and having to get to work, meetings etc on time
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Sounds more like a time management crisis? I've used MUNI and BART in the Bay Area, they move slow and it was still worth it because it kept me off the road and it still got me to where I needed to be. BART takes you straight from SFO to downtown, no cab needed.
Dunno where you are going with this, but taking public transit in this case has advantages over DART. Much more abundant and cheaper parking in Dallas
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Money? I'm sure paying a few dollars for transit beats 20 miles + of driving on a daily basis and having to fill up consistently. On average when I drive, I fill up every three days. My car gets me something like 14 miles per gallon and I'm well aware of the supercharger being my fault and not having that as an excuse but transit's just a far better option.
you would think so by just visiting Dallas and having a good time going out having fun at the cool places. When you got to drive to the darn station, get on the train and then get on a bus or walk to where you are finally going then pay $10 to get there in an hr and a half, you might as well pay the $3 for gas and get there in half an hour. Now if you have to pay $20 bucks a day for limited parking as is the case in other cities then the situation begins to turn differently. A monthly pass for DART is $100 bucks, reserved parking is usually about $25 bucks a month
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Leaving early to get from point A to point B would be my suggestion to those with the complain on "time".
again that is easy for you to say going sightseeing, but try having to make it to work at 8 every morning and you will be singing a different toon. People are looking for shorter ways to get to work, not paying more for a longer trip.
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Neither are my complaints. The way I see it, I save cash from having to fill up on and I still get to where I need to, by leaving early and managing my time best.
Dart is more expensive than Gas. A single regional pass is about 4 bucks and a day pass is about ten bucks.
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Yeah except I'm not talking about bus fleet, I'm talking about rail serving the city. If I were to live in say Deep Ellum and for my grocery, nightlife, dining, entertainment, work related (let's say downtown Dallas), and access to the international airport, would DART be able to service my needs by rail? I've used it, it can.
That would be all well and good if the 6.& people in DFW lived in Deep Ellum. They do not. You could make the same argument with a dozen places in Miami. If I lived in so and so, I could get so and so.
The fact is you can't isolate a neighborhood of 10K people and have it speak for 6M. fact of the matter is transportation is served up in a lot more areas in Miami than DFW when you look at all the options available. In Fact when you look at it Houston is better served too because they have a better bus system.
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As convenient as buses may possibly be, I'd rather venture out walking or biking than taking those.
Yeah, so what? I am not gonna tell you what to enjoy, but again we are talking about everyday life, not skipping to the park. Look up the complaints that everyday residents make about DART.
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Every city has a bus fleet. Every single last one of them. They don't substitute a good rail transit system, regardless where they go.
Yes they do, but some are more expansive than others. Studies of access to public transport across the US showed that DART was lower than both Miami and Houston.
Which ones inside the city of Dallas are stations to no where?
For that you got to read back and see the context of the posts
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It is not cheaper to drive.
It is. See above
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I don't know about you but paying for car insurance monthly never really comes close to putting a smile on my face. Nor does having to service the car every three months. Or to take time out of the day to "schedule" sticker changes and for that you have to go to not one but two different (probably opposite ends of the city) places for each sticker. Then you have the maniacs walking around with their keys in their hands waiting to key cars, damage it, accidentally hit it, pot holes, paying to park, alignment issues (especially with hilly topography), and so on. Oh and all the while you're adding mileage (wear and tear) to your car, sounds really bad to me.
all of that they are going to do anyway, cause lets face it, the sunbelt is spread out, no PT system today is going to have the totally ditch the cars.
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How is it cheaper to drive + own a car than to rely entirely off DART for all your needs?
simple answer: you can't totally rely on DART.
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Get a monthly pass.
how much is that monthly pass?
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You can get to majority of the places you need to be in Dallas, particularly the Dallas side of the Metroplex (excluding some areas like Irving and so on) with DART including the airport. How is it cheaper to drive from Garland to Deep Ellum rather than just paying a transit fare?
so now we have gone from relying entirely on DART to SOME Places, on one side of the metro??
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So what you have to leave an hour early?
don't flippantly dismiss people's commute before you try it yourself.
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Is it really logical to be driving from Uptown to the airport when you can just pack your bags, board DART, transfer to the Orange Line and get to the airport? Also saves you whatever length of money from not having to put your car outside on a surface lot at the airport and paying for each day it's there.
one destination does not equate to living with DART on a daily basis
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I cant imagine anyone seriously getting so bent out of shape over something like $3-$5 and choosing to drive when they know they don't have to.
money may not be an issue for you but I have seen people in Houston not go to work because they couldn't muster up the $1.25 to get on the bus. Not going to speculate on your financial capability, but I will say this, there ARE many many people out there counting their pennies and spending extra dollars a day to them IS a big issue. When you have seen a woman crying to a bus driver that she only has 78 cents but she really needs to go work or else she will be fired the you may reconsider how a few dollars a day is huge for some people
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I'm with Spade on this. I don't think of either Miami or Dallas as problematic transit cities for the areas they serve.
you know that is not what I said. Said Miami is much better than DFW at transit, and that's a fact Jack.
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They can improve and expand more, sure thing, definitely. They could also promote more rail ridership and it would be in their best interest to but both cities have a backbone to get you to the bulk of places you want to be in. I give the edge to DART.
That's your opinion, The studies show that Metro is a better system.
Your expense argument only picks up steam when gas approaches the price of the tickets. Data shows that ridership spikes when gas prices jump. But on a whole not that dramatic.
Another huge complain is that in the 90's before DART spent zillions of tax payers money to finance the millions of miles rail, the ridership was higher then than it was back then. You mean to tell me that the area grew by an additional 1.2 million residents, they spent so much on that rail, and then ridership on the system decreased???
Exactly. I will say Houston has the more efficient overall transit system. But rail easily goes to Dallas. Again, they aren't the same type of system. Houston is a glorified streetcar for most of the system even when the expansions are down. Dallas system outside downtown and a couple parts on the green line in southeast Dallas are not ran on the street. I was also comparing only Dart to Miami metro only. Not including the commuter rails. Just the inner city transit and I still pick dart slightly. Both are improving rapidly. I wish Miami could have extended the metro rail up 27th ave to the Broward-Dade line. My family would have loved that because they lived in Carol City when it was called that and also Miramar. Oh well.
Call they are both the same type of transit systems.
Dallas system outside of downtown, on street or not, still takes you to a bunch of trees.
Pardon me if I am not impressed by that
Call they are both the same type of transit systems.
Dallas system outside of downtown, on street or not, still takes you to a bunch of trees.
Pardon me if I am not impressed by that
Because it goes in the trees, it's not impressive? Well I guess you would never be impressed by DC's system. Again, no, they are not the same type of system. One is straight urban, the other is a hybrid. One is a streetcar throughout it's entire system. The other is not. If you disagree, that's fine. Won't be the last. DART rail is better than metro (Houston). The rest of Houston's transit system is better than Dallas system. I've said this countless of times. Also, I agree. Miami does have a better overall transit system. But DART rail is better than Miami Metrorail though slightly. That's the last I'm going to say on this.
Spade, let me just say this, I have my impressions of DART and it's not going to change unless the density of people, businesses, our attractions around the stations improve.
Until then I don't think the system was successfully implemented and no comparison you make to other cities is gonna change that impression for me.
If I build a light rail going from Spring, to Conroe, to Kingwood to Atascocita, to Humble, to Pasadena to Clear Lake etc, it would be a pretty long system, but I would not consider it a good system.
A better System would be taking the high density corridors and connecting them by hubs and arcs
If Arlington joins DART I expect a merger soon after between DART and FTA (Fort Worth Transportation Authority). DART will gain access to an additional 1.9 million people. I welcome DART into Tarrant County because it’s a much more progressive system than the FTA system. This merger will provide DFW with a regional transportation authority.
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