Phoenix Vs SunnyValle/Cupertino/Bayarea (population, highest, size, neighborhood)

[veek]

So many threads with "safe" in them. Is "safe" code for something? Idk, I imagine making "120k" will buy you a decent home with people of similar income, education, etc. I am seriously asking because to me it is pretty obvious where a bad neighborhood is

[Fogseeker]

Originally Posted by veek

So many threads with "safe" in them. Is "safe" code for something?

For me, safe means walking through a neighborhood in day or night without heightened concern about crime, and being able to park my car outside overnight with low probability of smash & grab stereo removal.

Good neighborhoods can be easy to spot, but some of them are one intersection away from less desirable areas. Infill development and city-driven gentrification of lower-income communities keep some areas from being economically homogenous. So, while your street might be in a good neighborhood, you'd still keep funds on hand to replace the car stereo every once in a while. Voice of experience here.

[Goober13]

Not really any safety differences. The Bay Area has many nice clean areas. It has some spotty areas like anywhere else and so does the Phoenix area. All in all the Bay Area is a very nice place but housing costs are very high. Phoenix is affordable for buying a home. Buying a home in the Bay Area takes time, and creativity. I bought 2 houses when I lived there. Both in the East Bay. Both lease options. People prize their homes there once they become homeowners. They hold on to them and make slow improvements. Many homeowners there have owned their homes for some time.

Is your wife or SO a professional person too? There are many professional couples in the Bay Area, and that could help your home ownership options down the road if she too earns 6 figures.

In Phoenix homes are disposable. People keep moving as something newer comes along, leaving a trail of blight behind. This is due to the large availablity of inexpensive privately owned land. Because of that fact prices are cheaper, and with your salary, whatever your wife makes and a reasonable downpayment, homeownership is easily within your reach

What city are you moving from in the Midwest? That may help in giving you a comparison you can relate to.

Safety is not even part of the equation. Every major metro has some lower income run down areas. That comes with living in a capitalistic society. I have never had any issues with safety in all my years in either area. There are a handful of pockets in the Bay Area with higher crime, East Oakland, Downtown Richmond, the 23rd Street area in San Pablo, Central Vallejo, San Pablo Ave just north of Downtown Oakland, parts of East San Jose, the Tenderloin in San Francisco. You wouldn't be living in those areas anyhow.

Phoenix's lower income areas with higher crime is more spread out. The Maryvale area, South Phoenix with the exception of E Baseline Rd towards Tempe, and Laveen, areas just west of Downtown, and scattered areas in Phoenix, Mesa, and Glendale. But these are not areas where you have to be afraid to stop at the store. You wouldn't be living in areas like that with your salary anyway.

So forget about safety. There is nothing to be afraid of in that regards. Just the lifestyle you want to live, and the environment you want to live it in.

IMO your considerations should involve total household income, if buying a home right away is a concern, living in a cosmopolitan, highly educated, culturally sophisticated, moderately comfortable climate metro with a large employment sector in your chosen field is a priority for you and your wife or SO, or being in a city with affordable housing for purchase.

The $20,000 difference in salary less taxes will cover the difference in the amount you will pay to rent a house in the Bay area versus Phoenix. And when I moved to the Bay, the first thing I was told was to live in the East Bay and avoid San Jose and the Peninsula. The difference in rent you could save towards a down payment on a home. I followed that to a T, and that tip made my life better and enabled me to buy a home.

As I said beore, you really need to spend about a week in each metro to see for yourself which works best for you. Your career prospects probably would be better in the Bay Area, as that is the pulse of the high tech industry, but home ownership will be challenging for awhile. Phoenix is an easier lifestyle and $120,000 will go further, and you could live within 15-20 minutes from your job either in Deer Valley or Chandler, and buy a home with less money, but if you lose your job, $120,000 a year tech jobs are not that abundant here although there is some growth in that market.

You have a serious decision to make.

[veek]

Great post Goober. You articulated my point way better than I did initially. With that salary, in Phoenix at least, you can bypass the more crime ridden areas completely. In the Bay Area my concern would be distance from work and I noticed a lot more racial segregation in the Bay Area. This is by choice grouping so maybe segregation is not the right word? You can go into an area where English is not the dominant language (Spanish for that matter too lol). I am not saying it is a bad thing per se but things to keep in mind. Crime would be the last thing I would be thinking about in comparing those metros

[place]

Thanks guys for pouring your suggestion and thoughts. I am the sole bread winner and we are not planning to buy a home soon. In fact we have not even thought about that.

[Goober13]

Originally Posted by Fogseeker

For me, safe means walking through a neighborhood in day or night without heightened concern about crime, and being able to park my car outside overnight with low probability of smash & grab stereo removal.

Good neighborhoods can be easy to spot, but some of them are one intersection away from less desirable areas. Infill development and city-driven gentrification of lower-income communities keep some areas from being economically homogenous. So, while your street might be in a good neighborhood, you'd still keep funds on hand to replace the car stereo every once in a while. Voice of experience here.

Good neighborhoods are very easy to spot. Anyone can spot a blighted neighborhood. A lot of petty crime and shoplifting. But criminals target "good" neighborhoods for crime a lot. That is where the better things to steal are,and where people can be caught off guard. While it is understandable that people with higher incomes don't want to live in lower income areas due to the "envy" factor, lots of burglaries occur all over the Phoenix metro, many by kids, just like vandalism occurs in "good" areas here by kids.

When I hear crazy crap on the news by majority race people when a murder or bad crime occurs in their neighborhood, that those kinds of things don't happen here, I wonder what is wrong with them. Most crimes are isolated, or targeted towards a specific person. It has nothing to do with the neighborhood, if a domestic violence crime occurs, or a tergeted murder occurs, or if your area is targeted by burglars. You just have to burglar proof your home, and if possible don't leave your cars out at night.

I watch where I park my car when I go to "sketchy" areas, and I don't pull out my wad of 20's to pay for something when in such an environment. I have a small bill put aside to pay. This is just common sense. I don't look out of place and lost, I walk confidently and cool. That is the mistake many of you who feel afraid make. You don't work at "fitting in" wherever you go. Go to a Circle K in an iffy area, park near the door where your car is visible. If you have a Louis Vuitton purse, cover it up and leave it in the car. If sketchy looking people are hanging around the store or parking lot, pass that Circke K up and go to the next one. Don't park in between 2 high profile vehicles.

So really this talk of safety and fear involves majority race people not understanding the streets. If they did they wouldn't be scared, and if they aren't scared, criminally prone individuals wouldn't target them for crimes, as criminals look for vulnerability.

It's not the area, it's you.

That is why all the unbiased info we give here on the forum is helpful, but it is just a guideline. People need to get in the car and DRIVE AROUND to put what we say into perspective.

[JohnSoCal]

Originally Posted by veek

...I noticed a lot more racial segregation in the Bay Area. This is by choice grouping so maybe segregation is not the right word? You can go into an area where English is not the dominant language (Spanish for that matter too lol). I am not saying it is a bad thing per se but things to keep in mind. Crime would be the last thing I would be thinking about in comparing those metros

You have to be joking. The SF Bay area is the most integrated area I have ever lived in. You have all races and ethnic groups living on the same streets in the same neighborhoods. We lived in San Jose, Los Gatos, Sunnyvale, Cupertino, and Livermore in middle class neighborhoods. There were people of all types living on our streets and we all socialized together.

[18Montclair]

I think you should look at Fremont. The city actually has a top scoring school district but is more favorable pricewise to those South Bay cities you are considering.

I personally work in Palo Alto but live in Oakland because I love my job but I love living in Oakland as well. The commute might be too much for you. Keep in mind the Bay Area has the highest percentage of supercommuters in the nation according to the census bureau, so dont be surprised if you have coworkers who come from 40, 50, 60, 70+ miles away. Generally, its cheaper the farther away from the peninsula you go.

I could live closer to my job, but I am too happy where I am now. The amenities and location are perfect for me. To live in a scenic, upscale suburban neighborhood in the East Bay hills with views of the city and bay, that is a 20-minute subway ride from downtown SF, has always been my ideal. Im glad I found it.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by JohnSoCal

You have to be joking. The SF Bay area is the most integrated area I have ever lived in. You have all races and ethnic groups living on the same streets in the same neighborhoods. We lived in San Jose, Los Gatos, Sunnyvale, Cupertino, and Livermore in middle class neighborhoods. There were people of all types living on our streets and we all socialized together.

Yeah that was laughable.

[place]

I am feeling Fremont is relatively cheaper to live. Is that so